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SWM:AI...? Options
kezzamachineII
Posted: Tuesday, February 7, 2017 12:15:06 PM
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Yo.

I've been thinking recently about what an AI system could look like for minis. The genesis of this thought-process has been the excellent AI system for Xwing in Josh Derksen's "Heroes of the Aturi Cluster", and it has got me thinking that while a all-excompassing, flawless system of AI would be a near impossibility, something fairly basic must be able to be achieved.

I've got some thoughts, but will come back to this thread later in the day(s) to add them, but I thought I wanted to put it out there to see if anyone had similar thoughts, or to give some of y'all space to think about it.
CorellianComedian
Posted: Tuesday, February 7, 2017 2:20:35 PM
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Neat idea!

For those [like me] who don't know much about X-Wing, here is the page with the rulebook download.

I don't have time right this minute to go through it and come up with anything, but I look forward to seeing responses!
kobayashimaru
Posted: Tuesday, February 7, 2017 3:26:48 PM
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@kezzamachineII
Howdy.
I like your line of thinking. BigGrin
I would be very interested in seeing a SWMinis "autoplay mode"/"AI mode" develop,
it would probably be as popular as Dynamic Duos, maybe moreso even!

a SWMinis equivalent of the other table top games as
"Killteam/W40Kin40mins", XWing, Tannhauser, Imperial Assault etc would be fun for table-top.
though, an AGIXML or AI handler for a videogame approach/ "digital" approach would be fun too.
I would like to see such a project eventually develop.

SW:Killteam is already a SW40K port that could run in 'ai mode"/"single player mode".
learning from other such games,
SWMinis would benefit from "stochastic mechanisms" and pseudorandom stuff to ensure the different AI's
don't all have the same attack pattern. some folks love tabletennis against the wall - other folks get bored at that format hehe.
Auto-chess and chess-compositions are a very different beast to Chess itself.

dumping a small bag of 80+ tokens that are color coded, and attacking only the face-up areas is an example of "raider-AI".
having color-banded bases movement trays/'base rings', and having Red Group attack Blue targets, Blue Group attack Yellow and Green targets, Yellow group attack Red etc... that's another way that produces some great variations in attack strategy.
a lazer pointer ball (fresnel lens with very small holes in grating around it, and a random generator to cycle the MED/light and location) also works.
a "digital map" as some folks now have, either via Overhead Projector or a monitor in the tabletop, can also be used to make the random locations. this can randomly highlight a square, or overlay shapes as 'attack patterns' for that round.
the shape generator can be a hyperdimensional polychora which is then taking a flat section - Conway or Coxeter's work becomes very interesting...

I digress;
SWPlay had a similar idea for making a stand-alone SWMinis App,
with a view to eventually being able to map the turn structure from live games (say, for recreating tournament moves)
or being able to port squads from your squad-list
I would very much support an app project and digital approach, be it this project,
or the "boardgame-sim App" SWMinis app project or similar.

Electronic Journal of Combinatorics online has several approaches for mapping complex game states such as SWMinis "chess compositions".
- after mapping the meta-combinations of the game, and then testing those across the known maps (or, the variable maps in Tile Wars even),
an AGI routine could be developed to emulate some of the playstyle from the tournament pros.
This would be EXCELLENT for recreating and training.
I'd like to recreate several of the 2011,2012 and 2013 regionals scenarios that went to time, or the nationals last couple of rounds - those were very close games.

|it's not really n^X, rather, it's 'babushka limits'...
it's n!/(n-r)r'! - where those placeholders could be further cancel-able expressions...
or so, or the cumulative series of nPr;
the 'large number' of squares and indefinite number of distinct pieces are what make evaluating
the superset of all possible gamestates and indexing those tricky.|

Anywho -
I'm keen to hear what folks are thinking,
and seeing these new inroads for SWMinis form.


Do folks want these projects to be more "physical - table-top AI" or,
'digital, videogame AI", and why can't we shoot for the moon and aim for both? BigGrin

What did folks think of VASSAL AI and SWMPlays 'simple' AI -
specifically, why are certain squad combinations easier to defeat than others, given that
your squad and play style did not change?
is this something to do with how the AI forms a get.that.|gridsquare.floatingpointvalue| update routine?
how many values would each gridsquare need to hold to rectify that?
the present 5 per square mightn't be enough... but is 11 or so too much?
is a Wilber model possible?
General_Grievous
Posted: Tuesday, February 7, 2017 7:10:10 PM
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Koba, you always have the best posts. And great stuff.

We use AI for our Rakghoul Zombies variant which involves each person building an all-living squad and trying to get a character each to the four corners of two side-by-side maps to call in a ship. We have three types of AI Rakghoul zombies and thankfully savage makes hem easy to handle. Each turn they move toward the closest enemy and attack. If two or more enemies are the same distance a die is rolled to see who they will target. If they have line of sight they move full speed towards closest enemy, again dice if equal distance enemies. And lastly if they are out of sight of any player's characters you either divide the d20 into sectors relating to the board or roll a 4-8 sided die to determine a direction that the characters will move. Works great for savage melee and characters with only one ability. But can be applied to many non-uniques
Darth_ted_82
Posted: Tuesday, February 7, 2017 7:57:40 PM
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I would definitely be interested in it.
CorellianComedian
Posted: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 12:47:40 PM
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Maybe contact this guy? He might have some good insight.
kezzamachineII
Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:43:25 PM
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kezzamachineII
Posted: Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:43:59 PM
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Joined: 12/30/2015
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Super rough. Needs work.
CorellianComedian
Posted: Thursday, March 9, 2017 10:04:07 AM
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Looks awesome, though, I'll try and test it out some time!
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