I didn't want to continue this discussion on the V-set 14 thread, but after seeing the Nien Nunb piece. It just Erks me that everything in this game gets cheap utility pieces except Force Users. If I'm wrong please jut let me know. But, take the Sith for example.

Sith Recruit - 4 points. Cool idea... But you give the other squad 4 points... to reroll a save or attack. So the Counter to Vong, and all the Ysalmari and not being able to spend FP, is to give them 4 points of gambit.

Loth Cat- Fringe. 4 points. If I'm within 6 squares of it.. I can move 3 more squares towards it... But again, I have to sacrifice 4 points of gambit to accomplish this.

Freedon Nadd - 11 points. Force Spirits are for sure the best boost these guys have... But, again, what does he give you? 10 extra points of damage if I can make it adjacent to an enemy before being shot to death? All while staying within 4 squares of the spirit. But still, its the best option these guys have. But compare it to other factions, and sub factions boosts.

Sidious Hologram 11 points- This piece is kinda a joke now. Who is going to spend 11 points to give... Who renewal?

Krath Death Witch 12 points. Great piece, in theory. But... Every other faction has movement breakers, and act control, so its almost to easy to get within 6 squares and nullify this guy, or at least shoot the mouse who is carrying the CE. This piece is a really cool idea, and being non unique means you could add 2 in a squad in case one dies.. but now, your paying 24 points for something.

Exar Kuhn FS- 14 points, another piece that give +10 damage.. and gives 2 Force Points to spend to all Force Using allies. But again, the damage is only adjacent, and the spirit has t be really close a well.

GARY- Perhaps the best boost in the Sith faction, and it doesn't even help the Sith.. Boardwide CE with a damage boost. Fantastic utility piece.

Sorcerer Acolyte 17 points - Spend 2 Force points to give an adjacent character cover... Now this seems really good, but with Missiles, grenades, and all the movement breakers in other squads, putting a bunch of pieces together and adjacent just doesn't seem like a great idea. Could just be me, but I don't see the purpose of it.

Marka Ragnos FS 17 - Again... A piece that hands out a defensive ability. And gives them 4 more FP. Neat utility, but compare it to other factions? Vong in particular.

Queen Amonoa 20 points- This is what you should be looking at. Disciplined leader, finally. And a CE that is pretty cool. I don't know if it follows targeting rules tho? If it does, then I don't like it at all, because squads will still just out act and smash, if it does not follow targeting rules, its a Great CE.

Darth Wyyrlock 20 points - I'm not a huge fan of this piece... Booming voice and Backlash to Followers... I'm sure it is better now, but with how much the majority of pieces cost in this faction, you would have to have over 50/60 points of Utility.. throw in 1 beat, and your already over 120 points.


Compare these pieces to any other faction, and see the difference in CE, or SA that flow together. If I want Amonoa, who I think is the best piece, theres 20, Wyyrlock for booming voice, 20, then where do you go? 1 or 2 Spirits for the damage boost? 50-60 points. GARY? 57 points.

I just don't understand why its so hard to make this faction better with Unique Force Users. There has to be a way to make them better, the way all these other factions, and sub factions are. I mean, The Hutt Cartell Has better CE and SA for cheaper... The HUTT CARTELL!

I agree but Holosid is really awesome and I can't play sith without him and DWIII and Bandon.

The siths edge was that they had a lot of HP, but as more and more abilities come out to buff attacks, they are just butter waiting for a hot knife to rip through them. Sith NEED, not could use, or would be nice with, but NEED LS Defense or Parry or Soresu Style Mastery to survive.

One of my personal favorite customs Kasim, Sith Blademaster could be a quick band aid. If you don't want him to be a monster, make a dumbed down version for 20 points and hand out a melee defense like Parry.

Almost all great sith have duelist or about 2 or 3 LS force powers for offense, but they do 1 force leap or position themselves then get based up by 2 Green Jedi and die.

Sith need help and not by way of a more OP version of gloomwalker either. The fun for me is in the lightsabers and force powers.

EDIT: Parry would be best to avoid Vong

Agreed, the tech should be built into the unique pieces. Aleema is a great example with her Sith Battle Magic stuff or even swap on Revan is brilliant.
You have others as well.
As far as cheap tech goes, I think a hologram that grants something like +2 defense would not be a bad idea.

Addressing the original post a little bit, Sith don't get cheap utility partially because of flavor. In Imperials, most of your good boosts are from officers with BB guns. Thrawn is expensive, but he's got an amazing commander effect. Ozzel is 11 points, and the only reason you'd use him is for his CE. Several other factions rely on weak commanders with good CEs (Rebels have Dodonna and Leia, Seps have San Hill, etc.)

Almost ALL notable Sith pieces are Sith Lords, who are never going to be cheap, unless you want to throw any semblance of flavor out the window. As poorly as the Sith fared under WotC, I'd say they were mostly on-target with flavor - little in-faction synergy, just that all their big pieces are bulldozers.

I actually don't really like the idea of cheap utility for the Sith - they of all factions would be ruined by having a random secretary type showing up in every squad.

I like the route the new Plagueis takes - he isn't quite enough to make low-act Sith playable by himself, but he's a lot of fun. It isn't even necessarily that his boosts are amazing, just that he encourages you to play <8 pieces and that's a lot of fun.

I think Jen'ari is on the right track - give Sith the scissors option they need. (Skyborn ranger on Uvak kinda does this).

I also think, since the damage ceiling is higher than in WotC days, it would not be out of line to make Sith with monstrous amounts of health and no defense... I can't think off the top of my head who still needs to be made. This would be unconventional, but maybe a Sith who gives Unique Sith allies +50 HP at the beginning of the skirmish? (Obviously just a rough idea).

I believe you are right, but if unique pieces that cost around 40 come or than+2 defense can be a tad bigger deal.
But I think you are right in saying that particular bonus doesn't mean that much. Hologram that gives +2 to saves. Now that is something worth while. But that is not really sith.
Thinking about sith, I think we could make a tech piece of some sort that says that unique Allies with force renewal can gain+1 force if they do not use a force point their turn. Or something like that. Would have to find a way to make it make sense. I know that holocrons definitely help sith Lords force abilities

It's just difficult to see a CE because how many sith are actually followers? Who wants Revan or krayt to be a follower to some smuck? But I do think that if we try to go the theme route than we can get some of this going. No reason for jrayt to not give out gma to his followers. Even some non unique sith.

Revan and Malak had lots of non unique sith at their disposal as well the new sith saber could be utilized decently with a decent commander for instance

Two is still more than none, oh Separatists.... Hahahaha. It's ok we are used to it.

But there are some really good Sith squads out there, they won the Canadian regional last year with:

--Lords of the Sith--
62 Darth Revan, Sith Lord
42 Dessel
36 Darth Traya
20 Darth Wyyrlok III
22 Gloom Walker Infiltrator x2
18 Ugnaught Demolitionist x6

(200pts. 12 activations)



And second place this year was with this:

--Sketchy Attack (2nd place Canadian Regional 2017)--
60 Darth Plagueis, The Wise
48 Darth Zannah
41 Lord Scourge
27 Darth Bandon
20 Darth Wyyrlok III
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(199pts. 6 activations)


What is in common? Other than one of our best northern players really likes Revan haha. Its Revan's super swap and booming voice. Not quite out-activate and smash but definitely some deep strikes able to be pulled off here. Whoever Plagueis though was absolute genius. Him and Queen are a great direction for the Sith. The two of them and Krayt he actually a possibility. Currently though I think the absolute best build is something like this:

--Rule of Few--
62 Darth Revan, Sith Lord
60 Darth Plagueis, The Wise
20 Darth Wyyrlok III
20 Queen Amanoa
26 Gloom Walker Infiltrator x2
11 Freedon Nadd, Dark Force Spirit

(199pts. 7 activations)


And this is not even touching on all of the incredible combos the Father and two Sith can form. He is amazing to provide some batteries and tech for the Sith monsters. Couple sample builds:

Father/muur/Bastilla
Father/Katarn/Caedus
Father/Plagueis/Satele Shan
Father/Plagueis/Han, Rebel General