In case you haven't noticed, there has been a lot of discussion about reserves squads and whether they need a nerf, or rework, or whatever. Something that has come up in some discussions is Unkaar Plutt, who is supposedly a counter to reserves (haven't seen his stats or anything).

This post isn't really about reserves, but the concept of creating a counter piece to a squad type.

First, if the piece is only for one faction, then you haven't countered anything. You have created a piece that only helps one faction against something that apparently needs a counter. Colonel Jacen doesn't counter reserves, he makes NR better by removing a weakness.

If the piece is fringe and 21 or more points, congratulations. No one will ever play that piece. Unless it is worth playing without the counter abilities.

If the piece is fringe and 20 or less points, only people who play Lobot will ever use it, unless, again, it is worth playing without the counter abilities. In my personal opinion, Lobot is stupid and allows for mindless squadbuilding, but that's up for debate.

The only option left over is to make a counter piece for at least a handful of the factions so that there will at least be the threat of it being played. This is probably not viable with the rate that we get new pieces. You would still have to make the piece worth it without the counter abilities or it simply won't see the table.


So the conclusion I reach is that the only way to make a counter actually counter anything it to make it essentially overpowered or make Lobot even better than he already is. I find neither option to be very good.

Thoughts?


Important note: This post does not reflect my opinion on the state of the power of reserves, it just happened because of a discussion that happened to be about reserves.

Most pieces (including Unkar) are not hard counters. They just make it harder to run, not as easy to get. Sometimes you'll run into them, sometimes you won't. But it might make someone think twice before bringing it.

Reserves squads like Jason's do have a hard counter - the MTB. Jason's brilliant move was to bring his own MTB to counter anyone else bringing one.

Virtually everything in the game has a counter of some sort. What I like to do when I design is simply give more options. Believe it or not - I have no desire to make "auto-includes". I avoid it. I like to try and make interesting pieces that inspire players to build with, and have some success but aren't overly dominant. With clever squad building and good play they can rise to the occasion - but not everyone and their mom uses them.

Massive +1 to this. Would love an ability like that, especially in Sith.


Massive -1 to this. I have seen at least two pieces in the last two sets that very specifically meet suggestions I made in the forums. One of them I can't disclose right now (personal preview ) but I will tell you they basically did exactly what I suggested. Now I certainly wasn't the only one voting for him, and I have no brownie points or anything that would cause them to pay special attention to me, but the piece sums up my request almost exactly.

(The other piece is Resistance Chewie - at one point I specifically asked for an Impulsive-type ability that only triggered when certain allies were defeated, so you can't just kill Salacious Crumb to get it and it's not worth sacrificing the piece to get the boost)

All I know is we need a sith Vader.
Been saying that one for since I knew there was not one. Since the beginning.

I like the idea in all honesty. It's actually similar to Aves. In fact - if we took what Aves does and amended it to 3, then it's more powerful (you can choose when to use it)

Aves - Usable when your squad contains only Fringe characters: If this character is unactivated at the start of an opponent's phase, you may force that player to activate 2 characters that phase (including the first phase of the round), suppressing enemy commander effects that alter the number of activations per phase.

New Sith idea - Usable when your squad contains only Sith characters: If the opposing squad has more unactivated characters in their squad than yours at the beginning of an opponent's phase, you may force that player to activate 3 characters that phase (including the first phase of the round), suppressing enemy commander effects that alter the number of activations per phase.

All these years I thought we already were.

Awe thanks Jim. Although you might be a little biased - I did lean on you quite a bit for input on the piece. You deserve designer credit on Aves

Squad counters is a good subject for our game.
To me counters do not need to be one direct ability, ce, nor do they need to be one piece that does it all.

I feel that it is a slow process to get rid of NPE's or to counter squads.
The point being that different styles should play and have a chance of winning. Full counters are not fun for the person wanting to play a certain style.
The only time, imo, a full counters should be used is if it is a community npe.

different game styles should be better against some them others.
Think of Pokemon.
Fire is good against grass but weak against water type.
So it stays fair without needing a fire Pokemon that is strong against water type.

if we want to get melee force users to be more involved we stop trying to counter everything and just make good melee force users.

We are so worried about specific npes that we are failing to make fun pieces.

I think factions needed to be evaluated on how well they do against other factions and try to keep it similar with what each faction brings to the table.
OR could be a natural counter to some rebel squads with board wide ce's drop. But OR can't be played, we need good pieces in OR.

Etc etc.
Sith has been ok at making a counters with aleema and queen amonoa but it has made game play in sith a tad more difficult to fit in those tech pieces.. But too much defense has stifled the vision of sith.
Make a Vader,ake a good 35 pt malgus, make anew Naga and see how much differently it plays, it can be a counter to a squad type with fast hard to kill sith that have movement

This is very true. Usually it's soft counters that we give, and it takes skill to use them. Often it takes many sets to build up to something. Squadbuilding to find the balance is a big part of the game.