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Help me beat this squad. Options
MrSmileys
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:48:53 AM
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One of the friends that i play with has a powerful Separatist squad that i have yet to beat. Out of the factions i use what kind of squad could i use to beat it. The factions i use are: Sith, Empire, Vong, and Old Republic.

Here is his squad as best i can remember: (in no particular order)
General Grievous, Droid Army Commander
Wat Tambor
Super Battle Droid Commander
T1 Series Bulk Loader Droid
Geonosian Overseer
San Hill
IG Lancer Droid
IG-86 Assassin Droid x2
Battle Droid
Mouse Droid x2

Cursing the main problem is he is out activating me because of san hill and i cant get to his commanders because he just keeps them locked in a back room.Cursing

what would you build to beat this squad.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:32:42 AM
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wow, that a fairly formidable squad!
you need high def (sith, Exar and ulic both having 23s, and in cover, having 27, but veeeery pricey.) u could also go with darth sidious sith master, a sith heavy assault droid (for pawning, a double twin at + 10 to attack, essentially giving the heavy 8 attacks after it activation) and an HK-50 (heavy damage output, decent def, and very pawnable.) build around those and give it a shot.
Uggie Demo
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:51:33 AM
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Mandalore Da Beast wrote:
wow, that a fairly formidable squad!
you need high def (sith, Exar and ulic both having 23s, and in cover, having 27, but veeeery pricey.) u could also go with darth sidious sith master, a sith heavy assault droid (for pawning, a double twin at + 10 to attack, essentially giving the heavy 8 attacks after it activation) and an HK-50 (heavy damage output, decent def, and very pawnable.) build around those and give it a shot.

Exar and Ulic or sith in general will not work against droids, I haven't used Empire against Droids before so they might work(depending on what your using) Ozzel could help you against being out activated, but Vong and OR with defenitly not work, and Mandelore if you think Sith will work against Droids I will take you on, next time you see me on vassal give me a PM! :P

Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:00:00 AM
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Uggie Demo wrote:
Mandalore Da Beast wrote:
wow, that a fairly formidable squad!
you need high def (sith, Exar and ulic both having 23s, and in cover, having 27, but veeeery pricey.) u could also go with darth sidious sith master, a sith heavy assault droid (for pawning, a double twin at + 10 to attack, essentially giving the heavy 8 attacks after it activation) and an HK-50 (heavy damage output, decent def, and very pawnable.) build around those and give it a shot.

Exar and Ulic or sith in general will not work against droids, I haven't used Empire against Droids before so they might work(depending on what your using) Ozzel could help you against being out activated, but Vong and OR with defenitly not work, and Mandelore if you think Sith will work against Droids I will take you on, next time you see me on vassal give me a PM! :P




i dont doubt droids at all, ive gotten my arse kicked by many a droid, but high HP allows you to live longer, especially those 2 (exar and ulic beatsticks), but my success rate with those 2 against a similar army was 50/50.
now my mandalorians on the other hand, on an Ulic squad with HoloSid, will eat droid armies for lunch. mind you, im talking a 250 pt. squad.
as far as Vassal goes, i still cant figure the darn thing out. i wouldnt mind gettin creamed a few times, if i could only figure it out.Sad
MrSmileys
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:08:28 AM
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I was thinking a squad with alot of jolt and cunning attack so his slow activations will work against him. I was thinking a whiphid tracker squad but they have fairly low hitpoints and could not take a hit from his IG-86 droids.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:16:50 AM
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MrSmileys wrote:
I was thinking a squad with alot of jolt and cunning attack so his slow activations will work against him. I was thinking a whiphid tracker squad but they have fairly low hitpoints and could not take a hit from his IG-86 droids.


a rebel squad with Verpines, that sounds plausible...
matter of fact, a reb commando strike leader, some reb commandos, a reb leader, 2 verpines, 2 mouse droids and gen rieekan.
they cant attack you from a distance while in cover, they have to be adjacent. and even if you didnt have cover, youd get Rieekans evade, and his twin for offense. with the verpines jolt, it would be droid activation city. playing it the right way is key though, because if you just throw yerself at him, he will pick them off one by one. but there isnt anything better then super stealth against a droid army.
MrSmileys
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:19:30 AM
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only problem with that is i dont play the rebel factions.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:30:02 AM
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errrr,,,
that is a problem.
work some kind of squad that has super stealth, like moff nyna calixte with some emperors shadow guards and mystral shadow guards (if you have them), but then you are looking at a straight beatstick squad.....hmmmmm.
toss in a Bith and Twileck BS vigo with the IE thrawn, so all can have opportunist maybe?
techdog
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:32:51 AM
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I like to try the Chiss. Imperials will be the best bet.

Thrawn
Mercenary Commander(x2)
Chiss Mercenary (x4)
Gotal Mercenary(x2)
Noghri
Elite Stormtrooper
Uggnaught Demo
Mouse Droid
Stormtrooper

14 activations(its a 200pt squad I didn't do the math on his squad, pair down as needed).

The Uggies can blow open the doors if they can get there. All of the Mercs, with the help of the merc commanders get furious assault so you can take shots at everyone you can legally draw line to. The gotals have intiution so you can move them out of sight and take running shots. The Chiss do 30 damage a shot so they can really put a kink in most teams. Thrawn will insure you will almost always get to choose initiative and gives everyone opportunist. The Nogrhi can help keep thrawn alive and hurt people who base Thrawn. This team can move a long way and do a lot of damage very quickly if you know how to position to get the most out of the furious assault.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:40:04 AM
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techdog wrote:
I like to try the Chiss. Imperials will be the best bet.

Thrawn
Mercenary Commander(x2)
Chiss Mercenary (x4)
Gotal Mercenary(x2)
Noghri
Elite Stormtrooper
Uggnaught Demo
Mouse Droid
Stormtrooper

14 activations(its a 200pt squad I didn't do the math on his squad, pair down as needed).

The Uggies can blow open the doors if they can get there. All of the Mercs, with the help of the merc commanders get furious assault so you can take shots at everyone you can legally draw line to. The gotals have intiution so you can move them out of sight and take running shots. The Chiss do 30 damage a shot so they can really put a kink in most teams. Thrawn will insure you will almost always get to choose initiative and gives everyone opportunist. The Nogrhi can help keep thrawn alive and hurt people who base Thrawn. This team can move a long way and do a lot of damage very quickly if you know how to position to get the most out of the furious assault.



i was thinking a merc squad with Nym included, just for the extra att value, and the merc commander also gives deadeye, giving those same chiss mercs 40 dam per extra attack. but my only problem with the mercs, is their lack of movement while in LoS with enemies, and their Def. the upside is their range of hp, mostly a 40.
TechDog has the right idea....
techdog
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:45:10 AM
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Nym is a great fig for any merc team, if you want to add him in it would help, but you would lose the activations. Thrawn swapping can really help get the Chiss where you need them to be. Although, if you feel you need more of a beat stick you can add in Nym, his gernades 40 is a great way to deal with a cluster of droids coming at you.
MrSmileys
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:55:36 AM
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The only problem i have with that is he is i cant use opportunist on his main units until most of my heavy hitters have already attacked. And the other is his IG-86es have quad attack when they dont move and have the ability to hit for 120 dmg on an activated opponent at a +15 or so attack(i dont remember their attack with all the bonuses but its high) the mercs have a low HP so he could kill 2 of them with only 1 IG-86.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 12:00:37 PM
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MrSmileys wrote:
The only problem i have with that is he is i cant use opportunist on his main units until most of my heavy hitters have already attacked. And the other is his IG-86es have quad attack when they dont move and have the ability to hit for 120 dmg on an activated opponent at a +15 or so attack(i dont remember their attack with all the bonuses but its high) the mercs have a low HP so he could kill 2 of them with only 1 IG-86.



heres an idea....
tell him to start getting creative with other squads, because in all honesty, that squad is a pain in the arse. and i can tell its frustrating you, especially if youve not beaten before.
but remember, any squad can be beaten, even this one. its almost like a cheap lock out squad if you think about it. those IGs are just too powerful, especially 2 of them.
techdog
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 1:22:01 PM
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MrSmileys wrote:
The only problem i have with that is he is i cant use opportunist on his main units until most of my heavy hitters have already attacked. And the other is his IG-86es have quad attack when they dont move and have the ability to hit for 120 dmg on an activated opponent at a +15 or so attack(i dont remember their attack with all the bonuses but its high) the mercs have a low HP so he could kill 2 of them with only 1 IG-86.



The Mercs do have low DV, but if you can force him to go first it will give them someone to hit. And, you have low level guys to move first as well, the Nogrhi, the Stormtoopers, you can out wait him just as much as he can out wait you. Especially if he is going to keep his commanders in a room. Don't worry about them, they can't attack you. The IG86's only have 60HPs, so you can wipe them out in a single round with the Chiss, thats 4 shots at them. And the Gotals and the Merc commanders, you can overwhelm him, you just have to out wait him, just cause you can rush in, doesn't mean you have to with this team. Or, if you have Admiral Ozzel you can add him in for the 11pt stormtrooper and only activate one character at a time and play his game.

His Team is good, but it can be taken down.
Omnus
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 2:27:06 PM
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To me the large threat comes from the Lancer Droid. 2 directions would be...

Darth Vader, Legacy of the Force (or Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi)
Thrawn
Admiral Ozzel

Use the the Riposte and Djem So + Oppurtunist to kill the lancer as soon as it comes in. Keep in mind if the Lancer wants to strafe it has to attack every character it flies over.

Kyle Katarn, Jedi Battlemaster
Shado Vao
Wedge
Dodonna

This isn't your prefered faction but its has 2 figs with evade and two characters with riposte which helps you take down the lancer pretty quick. Use dodonna to help keep up with that activations.

Both squads could include Universe Lobot to help make sure you can out activate them. Just pull in a Caamasi and 5 uggies to get yourself over his activations if you have Dodonna or Ozzel.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 2:28:53 PM
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One thing to make sure you're clear on - the Geonosian Overseer doesn't have a commander effect, so Double Attack isn't transmitted through the mouse droids. If the overseer is locked in the back room he's useless.

He really only has 3 main damage dealers - the lancer and 2 IG-86s. So you can build to take them out in one activation. A bunch of Ion Guns with Twin Attack could go a long way.
MrSmileys
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 2:50:34 PM
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ill try your squad idea techdog but tell me what you think of this one. it has low HP but it has the same weakness as the merc squad. The main glaring problem i see with the merc squad is he could wipe out most of it with 1 pass of the Lancer. with GGDAC it has a +14 twin at 20 dmg so it would be an almost guaranteed hit on each of the mercs, this squad has kinda the same issue but i figured the way i would play it is hold bane of for a few rounds and let him build up some force points, use lobot and override doors closed so he can not get to my weak guys with the lancer as fast. i would use the Uggernaught to go out and whittle away at him with cunning, twin, Furious Assault, and jolt. and all my guys have the opportunity to re roll attacks with force points. Bane would be the clean up crew/beat stick and i can run him in 12 and use sith sorc twice in order to activate all his guys.


--Sith droid killers--
82 Darth Bane
34 Uggernaught
15 Jabba, Crime Lord
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
13 Czerka Scientist
11 Darth Sidious Hologram
20 Jawa x4
6 Mouse Droid x2
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(199pts. 13 activations)
MrSmileys
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 2:55:55 PM
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Omnus, something to point out, with strafe he does not have to attack each enemy he flies over, the description says: As this character moves, it can attack each enemy whose space it enters. so because it says can and not must that gives him the option not to attack.
Omnus
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 3:35:31 PM
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MrSmileys wrote:
Omnus, something to point out, with strafe he does not have to attack each enemy he flies over, the description says: As this character moves, it can attack each enemy whose space it enters. so because it says can and not must that gives him the option not to attack.


But the official ruling for strafe is that you either strafe everything or nothing. Thats your two options. At the beginning of the movement the player must declare that he is activating strafe and must declare the ending position aswell. Then resolve all the strafe attacks in order and the player may not choose to skip certain figures. The player may also choose to move normally and not use strafe.
techdog
Posted: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 3:37:13 PM
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I think Bane is a monster and he can be a wonderful counter to almost anything if you can get him in close. If you want a good counter to the Lancer, try Kel Dor Bounty Hunters. The lancer has to attack Melee, if he takes out a Bounty Hunter he will take 40 damage for doing so. They also have excellent AV and stealth. 3 of those guys for 13pts each can be a real pain to deal with for a melee heavy army.

I like the mercs cause they can get shots off on many targets and do big damage for a very cheap cost. Just find the right commander to go with them, GMY is a good one, GOWk(of course he was), Grand Admiral Thrawn, and anyone who can up their AV or DV. Expect to lose one or three, but if they each get off one Furious assault they are worth their points.

I know you don't plat rebels, but I think they are the best for countering droids, I have a counter for my friends Crab Droid army and its all about the rebels. I think the Sith have the pieces to make a great droid counter team, but I am not sure what pieces you have. I will come up with one I think would be great and post it tomorrow.

Good luck and have fun.
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