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Hologram confusion Options
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 1:14:36 PM
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
So we have 3 separate Holograms in the game with 3 different definitions (counting glossary)

(Sidious is a Hologram in name only, he has no Hologram special ability)

Holo-veers:
Quote:
Card Text
Ignores all terrain. Cannot open doors. Cannot attack or be damaged, and does not count as a legal target. Does not provide cover. This character is defeated if it activates when no Trooper ally is within 2 squares.

Glossary Text
This character can move through enemy characters, and enemy characters can move through it, as long as no character ends its move in the same space as another character. This character does not count as the nearest enemy, and does not count as adjacent to other characters. This character is not affected by commander effects.


Holo-Snoke
Quote:
Card Text
Ignores all terrain. Cannot open doors. Cannot attack or be damaged, and does not count as a legal target. Does not provide cover. This character is defeated if it activates when no First Order ally is within 2 squares.

Glossary Text
This character is an insubstantial projection. It ignores all terrain, but it cannot end its turn in a wall or solid object (a space bordered by magenta lines) or another character. It cannot open doors nor hold them open. It cannot attack or be damaged, and does not count as a legal target. It does not provide cover. This character cannot score victory points for occupying specified areas in scenarios that include such victory conditions. It is defeated if it activates when no ally of the stated type is within 2 squares.


Maul-ogram
Quote:
Card Text
Ignores all terrain. Cannot open doors. Cannot attack or be damaged, and does not count as a legal target,. Does not provide cover. This character is defeated if it activates when no Fringe ally is within 2 squares.

Glossary Text
(None)



For ease of reading here are the differences:


Holo-veers:
Quote:
Card Text
(what ally needed?) Trooper

Glossary Text
This character can move through enemy characters, and enemy characters can move through it, as long as no character ends its move in the same space as another character. This character does not count as the nearest enemy, and does not count as adjacent to other characters. This character is not affected by commander effects.


Holo-Snoke
Quote:
Card Text
(what ally needed?) First Order

Glossary Text
This character is an insubstantial projection. (ignores terrain) but it cannot end its turn in a wall or solid object (a space bordered by magenta lines) or another character. (doors) nor hold them open.This character cannot score victory points for occupying specified areas in scenarios that include such victory conditions. (what ally needed?)stated type


Maul-ogram
Quote:
Card Text
(what ally needed?) Fringe

Glossary Text
(None)



Holy hell did we screw the pooch here?

The vset versions do not specify that they are not affected by commander effects and do not count as adjacent.

Maul and Veers don't say anything about not being able to get gambit

Hell Maul's doesn't say he can't end inside of walls or in other character's spaces

You can stand next to an enemy veers and shoot a different non-adjacent enemy (does not count as adjacent), but cannot with Snoke or Maul?



So - are they really all different (except which type of character they need within 2 when they activate)?


If not - we need to fix the glossaries to all be the same.

Regardless, clarity is needed
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 4:11:18 PM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
They are all the same ability. The only thing that is different is what ally is needed. Otherwise, they work the same way that Veers has always worked.

Looks like Snoke got the wrong glossary - something copied from Light Spirit instead of copied from Hologram. Maul doesn't have a glossary entry because Dave has a tough job and the glossary is on Veers. Same reason there's no glossary entry for all the Camaraderie entries.

EDIT: Looking deeper, not sure what happened there. It's not simply a copy & paste from Light Spirit. Snoke's entry is not taken from the FAQ or WotC glossary. Occasionally bloomilk isn't quite right... the real glossary lives here, but Veers' bloo entry is what it should be. Maybe Dave updated the glossary incorporate some rulings? Maybe I screwed it up? (I was on Snoke's set.) (No glossary given in the design threads.)

Maybe it's just plain wrong. If it is wrong, there are some surprising rulings there because I've always assumed HoloVeers works pretty much like a Force Spirit in terms of board presence.
TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, February 21, 2021 9:10:38 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
FlyingArrow wrote:
They are all the same ability. The only thing that is different is what ally is needed. Otherwise, they work the same way that Veers has always worked.

Looks like Snoke got the wrong glossary - something copied from Light Spirit instead of copied from Hologram. Maul doesn't have a glossary entry because Dave has a tough job and the glossary is on Veers. Same reason there's no glossary entry for all the Camaraderie entries.

EDIT: Looking deeper, not sure what happened there. It's not simply a copy & paste from Light Spirit. Snoke's entry is not taken from the FAQ or WotC glossary. Occasionally bloomilk isn't quite right... the real glossary lives here, but Veers' bloo entry is what it should be. Maybe Dave updated the glossary incorporate some rulings? Maybe I screwed it up? (I was on Snoke's set.) (No glossary given in the design threads.)

Maybe it's just plain wrong. If it is wrong, there are some surprising rulings there because I've always assumed HoloVeers works pretty much like a Force Spirit in terms of board presence.


Any resolution here?
urbanjedi
Posted: Sunday, February 21, 2021 5:04:19 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
TimmerB123 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
They are all the same ability. The only thing that is different is what ally is needed. Otherwise, they work the same way that Veers has always worked.

Looks like Snoke got the wrong glossary - something copied from Light Spirit instead of copied from Hologram. Maul doesn't have a glossary entry because Dave has a tough job and the glossary is on Veers. Same reason there's no glossary entry for all the Camaraderie entries.

EDIT: Looking deeper, not sure what happened there. It's not simply a copy & paste from Light Spirit. Snoke's entry is not taken from the FAQ or WotC glossary. Occasionally bloomilk isn't quite right... the real glossary lives here, but Veers' bloo entry is what it should be. Maybe Dave updated the glossary incorporate some rulings? Maybe I screwed it up? (I was on Snoke's set.) (No glossary given in the design threads.)

Maybe it's just plain wrong. If it is wrong, there are some surprising rulings there because I've always assumed HoloVeers works pretty much like a Force Spirit in terms of board presence.


Any resolution here?


I would assume (and rule) that they all act just like holo veers except need a different type of ally.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, February 21, 2021 6:35:05 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
Yes, they definitely all work the same, and work just like Holo Veers has always worked. I'm just not sure what happened with Snoke's glossary entry.
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