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Activation Cap Discussion for 2023 Options
DarkDracul
Posted: Thursday, September 29, 2022 5:24:26 PM
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People were asking my thoughts on an activation cap.
It's something I've brought up several times in the past and been rejected.

I like a hard activation cap at 16 characters, which would include Reserves and Reinforcements. You could still use those abilities to bring your squad up to 16 characters or build under the total to get the sideboard of characters.

I do not suggest this to hurt the “out-activation game,” although I do think it would help some squads compete against it. My reason is due to the time constraints of the game and a desire to see games play to a conclusion.

The “average game” is supposed to look something like this . . .
Game = 6 Rounds average
Round = 10 mins average
Round time per player = 4 mins (±1 min) average
Phase = 4 to 30 second average
Turn = 2 to 15 second average

Therefore, both players (using all their allotted time) need to be playing 16 characters or less for an Average game.

Slow players, bad matchups, and new or unfamiliar characters can slow games down.
However, squads with over 16 activations normally require more time than the “average” game.
Squads with 20 acts take nearly twice the time and are less likely to end with a full win for either player.

Alternative solutions would be for players to play faster or give a 1.5 hour time limit for games. Unfortunately, those are not feasible solutions as we can’t force people to play faster, and even at the 1-hour time limit, we have seen games go over time 15 to 30 minutes.

Looking at the past 3 championship games . . .

World Championship 2020
6 rounds, 42 mins *full game on gambit
16 acts vs 6 acts
Longest phase 1:30 mins
Quickest phase 4 seconds
Average phase 30 seconds

World Championship 2021
7 rounds, 125 mins *game ended on time
11 acts vs 6 acts
Longest phase 2:00 mins
Quickest phase 2 seconds
Average phase 30 seconds

World Championship 2022
4 rounds, 135 mins *game ended on time
19 acts vs 18 acts
Longest phase 4:30 mins
Quickest phase 6 seconds
Average phase 1:15 min

Anyways, based upon nearly 2 decades of playing SWM I think 16 activations is the sweet spot for games and perhaps for paper and rock squads to coexist.

thoughts?
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, September 29, 2022 7:13:42 PM
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I'm certainly interested in trying it for a season. Something like 14 or 16 sounds good.
thereisnotry
Posted: Thursday, September 29, 2022 7:22:44 PM
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You make a very good argument for it with the activation-allotment calculation.

Personally, I still think that 16 acts is on the high end of what I'd like to see. 12-14 seems like the sweet spot, to me.

I don't think I've ever been against an activation cap, though in recent years I haven't seen the need for one...but I do now.
DarthMaim
Posted: Thursday, September 29, 2022 9:15:01 PM
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thereisnotry wrote:
You make a very good argument for it with the activation-allotment calculation.

Personally, I still think that 16 acts is on the high end of what I'd like to see. 12-14 seems like the sweet spot, to me.

I don't think I've ever been against an activation cap, though in recent years I haven't seen the need for one...but I do now.


+1.
kobayashimaru
Posted: Thursday, September 29, 2022 11:26:21 PM
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Quote:
Anyways, based upon nearly 2 decades of playing SWM I think 16 activations is the sweet spot for games and perhaps for paper and rock squads to coexist.
thoughts?

Well said,
For Tournament Specific Floor Rules, that makes a lot of sense.
Floor Rules at Venue Specific seems an easier way than making it a 'rule-book change' / 'errata' etc.
Locally, many arbiters have adjudicated that the use of more than 20 activations is
construed as a form of slow-play - a deliberative act.

I think we can learn from Checkers, Chess and from Go etc
perhaps consider a move-clock at Tournament as part of adjudication / arbiter ?
30mins each, 1hr per table etc. I have seen a lot of slow play
and high-activation at tournament can be construed as a form of slow-play.


While I understand some Reserves themed squads can have more than 30acts,
they'd be nerfed severely by the decision,
I find the spamming of Paratus Mirror Squads which have a lot of acts,
and fringe high act squads
it's a sensible limit to have a 16-20 act limit.
If the overall result of the activations limit is viewed more like "Slow Play",
and, that people overall have a better game experience, that's a good thing.



Thank you also, DarkDracul,
for bringing the gamestates and minutes to bear,
this is why we keep the 'coffeetable' data from previous tournaments,
more than to analyze the game state like in Chess Compositions,
but, also to find ways to optimize the way the event runs etc.
I enjoy seeing the tournament "replay" in the VASSAL or Life-Engine / Game like TabletopBoardgame Simulator,
so we can then re-run the event.
It is thanks to good data keeping and sharing the information for the betterment of
SWMinis and gamestates etc, that we are able to have these "SWMinis Engines" / "Game State Compositions Books" for SWMinis.
Seeing SWMinis literature alongside the Save20 Magazine and Zines for SWminis is great fun.
Kinda like, how in poker tournaments, we can see the 'hand-cam" for the players and see the
replay so we can try and have that as a factor in our preparation etc.

spryguy1981
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2022 2:32:46 AM
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thereisnotry wrote:
You make a very good argument for it with the activation-allotment calculation.

Personally, I still think that 16 acts is on the high end of what I'd like to see. 12-14 seems like the sweet spot, to me.

I don't think I've ever been against an activation cap, though in recent years I haven't seen the need for one...but I do now.


I believe that 12 should be the cap personally including reinforcements. But regardless an activation cap is, and has been needed for a long time.
Mando
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2022 4:44:13 AM
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i'd be willing to try it for a season and see how it does. activation cap at 14 is probably what i'd go for to start.
Udorian84
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2022 4:44:35 AM
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Activation cap seems a bit odd to me tbh. It seems fun, but seems odd. People will still push the limits of the out activate. At that point what I believe would happen is people will just make all squads close enough to not be out activated. Out activate is a part of the game and does bring with it some fun. Those saying they want an activation cap usually play low activation squads. You can't ever escape the "self-serving" aspect of asking for change. However, if it is a consensus then it is no longer self-serving, it is community serving. But is a consensus enough to make a change to a game that has been around so long? I believe we can feel good about it benefitting everyone. I would like to see a cap at 14-16. I wouldn't want to go much below 14. This gives the Porg a little bit more of a strategy instead of a throw in in every squad.
thereisnotry
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2022 6:53:23 AM
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Yes, the power of out-activating has been a part of the game since relatively early in the WotC days.

But that doesn't mean it was necessarily a good thing for the game. The "Lightsaber" ability doesn't turn a non-melee into a melee attack either...that was with us since WotC too, but it doesn't mean it was good for the game.

I started learning how to play Thrawn last year for a bit. I could play Jango with his Accurate Furious Assault again. I could dust off some of my old Yobuck squads too. But is that necessary again, in order to compete in a tournament? For the past few years that has not been necessary, and as a result we've seen a massive variety of squads. So in a sense, I think an activation cap is less about self-serving and more about allowing variety in competition.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2022 7:00:58 AM
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thereisnotry wrote:

I started learning how to play Thrawn last year for a bit. I could play Jango with his Accurate Furious Assault again. I could dust off some of my old Yobuck squads too. But is that necessary again, in order to compete in a tournament? For the past few years that has not been necessary, and as a result we've seen a massive variety of squads. So in a sense, I think an activation cap is less about self-serving and more about allowing variety in competition.


Yobuck doesnt win.
But regardless of that I think this is spot on. Activation cap SHOULD allow variety in competition. Which can be self-serving, but it just so happens that the "self" is true for everybody. So it is a win-win in my opinion. Killing Dodonna really hurt Rebels and NR as well, leaving Thrawn as the out activate ultimate king.
DarkDracul
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2022 6:15:00 PM
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Joined: 4/18/2008
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Location: Kokomo
I think a 12-activation cap would mostly eliminate paper squads. Heck, most Rock squads are fielding up to 12 activations anymore. There have been so many good characters and abilities designed to counter high activations. I would hate to see those characters and abilities become useless to the game.

I’m not sure about 14 activations. I think most builds currently in the game could lose around 4 characters and port over to a 16-act squad. I don’t know if most squads could handle dropping around 6 characters. It would be interesting to see what a 14 act cap tournament would look like.

I think it would be a mistake to cap activations much below 16. “Paper” squads have a role in the game. Without a paper threat there’s no need to include “scissors” options and the game becomes all about rock crushing. Paper squads don’t care if your anti-tank squad is doing 200 unpreventable damage to 1 character. Paper counters rock, but it especially counters squads focused on crushing rock.
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