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General Skywalker and Yoda on Kybuck Options
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:09:23 AM
Rank: Vornskr
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Joined: 9/19/2009
Posts: 27
What do you guys think about this 150 build?

47 General Skywalker
51 Yoda on Kybuck
09 R2-D2 Astromech Droid
08 Mas Amedda
10 Rodian Trader
15 Bacta Tank
09 Ugnaught Demolitionist X3

149pts

Yoda gains momentum, The rodian gives everyone heal 10, the bacta tank doubles the heal.

You just run Yoda out and hit everthing, then run him back to the tank and heal him with himself, skywalker, mas, and 3 uggies.
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:12:05 AM
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Joined: 4/4/2008
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Are you aware that GS' ability only applies when a figure ends it's move within 6. In otherwords, Yoda still benefits, but only when he ends his Gallop. I think you would do better with either Panaka for swapping or Rex for shooter support than the heal station.
adminsidious
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:13:42 AM
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Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 138
billiv15 wrote:
Are you aware that GS' ability only applies when a figure ends it's move within 6. In otherwords, Yoda still benefits, but only when he ends his Gallop. I think you would do better with either Panaka for swapping or Rex for shooter support than the heal station.


Doesn't Mas Ameda make the CE simply "When they end their move" though?
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:28:43 AM
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That doesn't make any sense. Mas eliminates the "within 6 squares" part of the commander effect. All the commander effect is clarifying with the END IT'S TURN part is that the benifitting follower can still get momentum further than 6 squares away from the commander as long as he ends the turn within 6. But once again Mas eliminates this.

So he will have momentum throughout his gallop attack.

Definition of momentum-
If this character has moved at least 1 square during its turn, it gets a +4 bonus to Attack and a +10 bonus to Damage against adjacent enemies. Since this special ability works only on this character's turn, it doesn't help with attacks of opportunity.
maverick
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:42:36 AM
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I believe Mas only eliminates the "within 6 squares" YoBuck still has to end his move to qualify for the commander effect. He can gain momentum anywhere so long as he ended his move. I think thats how the interaction works.
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:06:07 PM
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Joined: 9/19/2009
Posts: 27
So if a charcter has moble attack and moves 3 squares, attacks, then moves 3 more squares ending his movement with in 6 of General Skywalker he doesn't get Momentum on that attack???
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:09:58 PM
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Joined: 4/4/2008
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mmorris wrote:
So if a charcter has moble attack and moves 3 squares, attacks, then moves 3 more squares ending his movement with in 6 of General Skywalker he doesn't get Momentum on that attack???


correct. The CE requires that you "end your move" in order to gain momentum. Check the FAQ entry for Durge from CS. It's the same CE, and the rules will be the same for how it applies.

It has nothing to do with the definition of "momentum". It has to do with in what circumstances it applies. In this case, it requires a character to "end its move within 6 of...." So logically, it cannot gallop afterwards, and another could not use mobile afterwards.
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:55:07 PM
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I'm not trying to be combative here. So please to think I'm being rude.

That commander effect can be read in 2 logically possible ways.

First- Followers MUST end their move within 6 squares BEFORE they can gain Momentum.

Second- Followers THAT WILL end their move within 6 squares gain momentum.

In both cases we are making assumptions about how to interpret this effect by adding words to it. You add "MUST and "BEFORE" and I add "THAT WILL".

I don't know which one of us is right but the wording of the commander effect as is does not clarify who is right.

The FAQ on Durge does not answer this question.
slvader77
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 1:06:04 PM
Rank: Young Krayt Dragon
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Joined: 7/16/2009
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Location: janesville wi.
ok characters who "end their move" which means they actually do not gain the ability until they end their move key word being end it's just stating within six for commander purpouses but they still have to end their move before they gain momentum
adminsidious
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 1:07:24 PM
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Posts: 138
Essentially, Yobuck never stops moving, even though the player has to pause to make the attack rolls?
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 2:05:51 PM
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Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

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adminsidious wrote:
Essentially, Yobuck never stops moving, even though the player has to pause to make the attack rolls?


Movement is one action. Gallop attacks take place during that action, but doesn't actually stop movement.
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 2:17:04 PM
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Joined: 9/19/2009
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So what about characters with rolling cleave? If you end your movement within 6 to gain momentum and use momentum against an enemy and defeat him is rolling cleave cancelled out since you are not allowed to move after the momentum was granted?


Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 2:25:02 PM
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Movement granted by Rolling Cleave and various CE's are seperate actions than regular movement. Ending your move does not mean you cannot move later. Rolling Cleave breaks quite a few rules.
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 3:24:56 PM
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Joined: 9/19/2009
Posts: 27
I still think that the way they wrote this commander effect is terrible. It really isn't as clear cut as you guys think. However; I do agree with you guys in the sense that this commander effect shouldn't work with galloping attack. Yoda would be insane!! Hopefully this if put into the FAQ's to clear up the confusion.
adminsidious
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 3:41:37 PM
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mmorris wrote:
I still think that the way they wrote this commander effect is terrible. It really isn't as clear cut as you guys think. However; I do agree with you guys in the sense that this commander effect shouldn't work with galloping attack. Yoda would be insane!! Hopefully this if put into the FAQ's to clear up the confusion.


It still does, but it takes alot more thought.

Yoda can still move his base movement, attacking everthing he passes with galloping, then stop, and make his actual attack, which would work with momentum.

Not the huge boost that momentum down the line would have given,but it's something at least.
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 3:43:25 PM
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mmorris wrote:
I still think that the way they wrote this commander effect is terrible. It really isn't as clear cut as you guys think. However; I do agree with you guys in the sense that this commander effect shouldn't work with galloping attack. Yoda would be insane!! Hopefully this if put into the FAQ's to clear up the confusion.


It's really not that hard.

"End it's move" refers to standard movement on a turn.

On a turn a character has the following options.

Replace it's turn.

Attack (replaces attack ability) and move

Move and attack (replaces attack ability)

Replace it's move with a double/triple/quad/extra attack ability

Replace it's attack(s) with a double move.

This is the "move" referred to. In order for a character to benefit from the CE, they must first meet all the requirements. They must move (ruled long ago) at least one square, they must "end" their move (which is only the standard move action of a character's turn, so rolling cleave and other special out of sequence movements do not apply), and they must end their move within 6 of the commander (can be boosted by Mas or Mice).

If, and only if you have done all three does that character gain momentum on the attack(s) made for the rest of that turn.
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 4:03:01 PM
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I am not disagreeing with what the word move means. Pay attention to what I am writing. I am saying that the commander effect does not say SPECIFICALLY when you get momentum. I could gain momentum before I am within 6 squares use it and end my move within 6 squares which qualifies the character to have it. Under the current wording of the commander effect you have no baises for saying that I can't do that.
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 4:12:08 PM
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mmorris wrote:
I am not disagreeing with what the word move means. Pay attention to what I am writing. I am saying that the commander effect does not say SPECIFICALLY when you get momentum. I could gain momentum before I am within 6 squares use it and end my move within 6 squares which qualifies the character to have it. Under the current wording of the commander effect you have no baises for saying that I can't do that.


Yes I do.

"Followers who end their move within 6 squares of this character gain Momentum."

This game requires that you fulfill all the requirements of a CE to gain it. You cannot gain momentum until you have ended your move. Intending to end your move does not grant it. I understand how you are trying to read it, but the precedent was set 4 years ago. It isn't going to be changed of that I am 99.9% sure. There are other interactions that break down if we read it your way beyond this one. So it pretty much has to be this way to work properly.

"end their move" is the timing piece. You are reading it as an intention to do so. That is just not the way the rules work. The way the rules are written, the only people who can gain the CE are "followers" and "who end their move...". Both requirements must be met. So if you think that through, it tells you exactly "when" a character gains the CE. You cannot gain it until you end your move.

You are welcome to wait for the word from Nickname on October 20th if you prefer. I'm just telling you ahead of time what it will be. Ending your move has always meant ending our regular move action. You cannot gain the CE (because you don't meet the requirements) until you actually end your move.
saeseetiin
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 4:40:36 PM
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bill makes sence I agree with him and thats how I thought it went.
Darth Percocet
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 4:40:46 PM
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Joined: 8/26/2008
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Im in agreement, i think mas knocks out that ce to be unlimited, basically you gain momentum when you end your move within 6 of GS, wouldnt ending your move mean your done your turn? So your sayin you can only use GS ce if you attack & end your turn a figure within 6 squares of him, it makes no sense what you are saying, whats the whole point of even having the CE then, you gain the CE if you end your move within 6? your turns over after that lol
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