ABM cancels any CEs that can be cancelled. If a character has Disciplined Leader then its CEs cannot be cancelled (though other CEs in the same squad could be cancelled if those characters don't have Disciplined Leader).

I'm not sure how Faith in the Force comes into play here.

Faith in the Force

Card Text

This character and allies with a lightsaber within 2 squares cannot be prevented from spending Force points or be forced to spend extra Force points. Their Force powers cannot be cancelled or prevented from affecting characters.

Glossary Text

This character and allies with a lightsaber within 2 squares cannot be prevented from spending Force points or be forced to spend extra Force points. Their Force powers cannot be cancelled or prevented from affecting characters. For instance, these characters ignore Force Suppression. They cannot have the effects of their Force Powers canceled by Force Absorb or Force Defense. They may spend Force points and affect characters within 6 squares of Ysalamiri. They can spend Force points to affect, reroll attacks, and respond to the attacks and abilities of characters with Force Immunity.



Yikes! I think it does work like that.

Faith in the Force was made many sets ago. As one of the designers on the set when it debuted - this interaction wasn’t on the radar (different factions, so the particular combo wasn’t possible then).

But this is a case where rules-wise - it is an unstoppable force (Force, ha!) meeting an unmovable object.

We are getting into the counter of the counter of the counter territory. Ugly stuff.

At some point you need to declare a terminus, or this will just keep going on.

I’d personally vote for disciplined leader being permanent and unable to be undone.

Designer insight - One of the main reasons disciplined leader is often added - is NOT because they are such great leaders and the character deserves that higher level. It’s because the CE’s that are on characters with disciplined leader would cause very crazy interactions that would make far more rules headaches if they are disrupted.

Summarized designer conversations frequently had -
“What happens rules-wise if this CE gets disrupted (distracted/ABM’d)? Yikes, that would be a headache. Let’s just give the piece disciplined leader so we never have to deal with that.”

For instance, I recently asked a question about the new Vader that lets you grab an ability from an allied inquisitors and hand it out to other inquisitors in your squad. I was told that disruptive wouldn't prevent them from using the CE because it plays as if it was on their card. But with this new Super ABM would that still be the case? Just another interaction that came to my mind because of the recent question, but what about CEs like that where the effect is supposed to be for the rest of the skirmish? I feel like it shouldn't affect that type of CE or disciplined leader/ hand signals stuff as they were specifically designed to be undisruptible. However, ysalimiri and force immunity should still be affected IMO.

There are other instances where 2 abilities directly contradict each other. My initial ruling would be that disciplined leader would hold true and the “super Abm” would do nothing additional to those characters. Same would hold for hand signals and other similar abilities would be my current ruling.

I could be wrong but have to dig into old precedents for some of those other contradictory abilities

I think the way faith in the force is worded now, it prevents usage of disciplined leader, etc with ABM since it is preventing ABM from affecting their CE. However, I do also agree it should not. Maybe a slight wording change somehow?

Bastila gains Force Attuned from Revan, The Prodigal Knight, so she can stay in the action and use it.

I personally don't think creating a SA that counters a counter (disciplined leader) for a counter (disruptive) is the way to go because then it will just cause the same thing - crazy interactions that no one knows the answer to

also still curious about an answer on this one and my previous post a few seconds ago as I am looking into ABM and faith in the force....

I do agree, this is just a matter of distinction between force power vs force ability and if they are considered the same thing for wording purposes.