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GOWK Skywalker Options
owaller3
Posted: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:24:58 PM
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Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 121
Weaver
Posted: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:31:47 PM
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Joined: 9/8/2009
Posts: 149
That's certainly a lot of effort to boost Dash.
owaller3
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:44:48 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 121
GOWK isn't there to boost Dash. He is there because he can deny a pure shooter squad such as Dawn of Bane or Slow Cannon. I think this point is being missed. If he was purely there to boost Dash another +4/+4 it would be a waste. General Skywalker serves two purposes: 1 to boost Dash and 2 to be a check against melee. Dash is in this squad to clean up large pieces.
Joruus_Cbaoth
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:12:37 PM
Rank: Gungan Shieldbearer
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Joined: 3/27/2008
Posts: 11
I believe what others are thinking (and correct me if I'm wrong), is that you're spending too many points to do too little.

A common mistake players make when building squads is this exact issue... "Piece A" is good, "Piece B" is good, and "Piece C" is good. Thus, in your mind, "A" + "B" + "C" = A good squad... But it doesn't.

You said it would be a good counter (yes, paraphrasing) to Slow Cannon squads, but what makes the cannon squads so powerful? Luke? Leia? Han? Rieekan? ... In my opinion, the thing that makes a "Slow Cannon" squad powerful is the combination of all the different pieces, working together to create a great squad. "Slow Cannon" without Princess Leia? How about without Luke's Snowspeeder? The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Of course, the same could be said about any squad, not just the "Slow Cannon". Trust me, I would know ;)

When a third of your squad has no synergy with another third of your squad, that just wont cut it, no matter how you slice it. You've got two beefy characters in your squad, but for what you're aiming for, you can only have one of 'em... Ferus Olin would be a fun piece to fit in your squad, either way you decide to go.

That's my suggestion! Good luck! :)
owaller3
Posted: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:35:30 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 121
So what synergy would Ferus Olin provide? I think you don't understand the way to play the squad so you assume you know what I am going for. I also understand how Slow Cannon works as I played against it at gencon so I am not sure I understand what you are implying. I would agree with your A+B+C arguement if there was 0 synergy but there is and you are passing over it as if it didn't exist.
joelker41
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:21:14 AM
Rank: Grand Master Yoda
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Joined: 9/13/2008
Posts: 508
owaller3 wrote:
So what synergy would Ferus Olin provide? I think you don't understand the way to play the squad so you assume you know what I am going for. I also understand how Slow Cannon works as I played against it at gencon so I am not sure I understand what you are implying. I would agree with your A+B+C arguement if there was 0 synergy but there is and you are passing over it as if it didn't exist.


Posting squads for critique implies you are willing to hear suggestions.

This post for one turns me off to posting because anything I say will be rebuffed.

I am of a similar opinion as Joruus, the squad has a lot of points spent on CEs to boost one follower.

That may not be the point of the squad but it does seem a little techy.
owaller3
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:08:22 AM
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Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 121
If the poster was suggesting how to make the squad better by saying add X Y or Z thats fine but implying that I have no clue on how to make a squad is not. If you have a suggestion I am more than happy to consider as I have with other posts. To simply rebuff the squad without a suggestion on how to improve it doesn't help. Perhaps he should explain why Ferus Olin would be a better choice and how it increases the synergy. My apologies if I came off too defensive.
billiv15
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:16:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
Make the same squad with Flobi instead of GOWK, and I think you can see what he meant by his criticism. He also suggested Ferus (and did not specify either GOWK or Anakin leaving). Well think it through. Does Ferus offer help in the place of either? Sure does. I would be inclined to drop Anakin in this case, and go with GOWK, Ferus and Dash. In fact I made a squad based on those three. So please, stop acting like you have been insulted, and get back to discussing the squad. He didn't imply anything about your squad building skill at all, you inferred that completely on your own accord - something you have done before.

And do clarify, you did not "play Slow Cannon" at Gencon. You played against a couple of people running some version of it. To my knowledge however, you did not play anyone in the top 8 who ran it. I could be wrong on one of your early losses, I'm not positive. I know you didn't play me at least. To say that simply because you played against someone running a certain type of squad means you understand it, is not accurate. Especially when your "counters" would suggest otherwise. General Skywalker gets smoked by the SS, and is almost completely worthless as an attacker against it in many situations (Flobi generally is that exception). And he gets completely owned by it, once he attacks (as well as disrupted). So to say that using Anakin in your counter, suggests you don't know as much as you claim. (This is not to say that a squad containing GS, cannot beat the SS. I've argued exactly the opposite. What I am pointing out here, is that your squad design doesn't make use of Skywalker in a way that allows him to be at his best against the SS. So you've taken one of his major strengths (his CE) and made it nearly useless. That to me, suggests you do not understand the match up you are claiming superior knowledge on).

Putting GOWK in just as a counter pieces is also suspect. He's a good piece, and I get that, but he would work better if you built for him. Your squad is lacking in synergy (and this does not mean as you claim that it has 0), it means that it could easily have more, that would make it better. That's what everyone else was telling you, not, "Well you suck as a squad building so quit and go home" or some other non-sense. Get over the I've been insulted crap or don't post squads for critique in the "Squad Critique" section. In fact, don't post them on bloomilk in public at all, if you don't respect the comments made by others.

I will simply add this. The very person you said didn't know how you would run the squad, and claimed the authority on Slow Cannon to at least be equal on, was a person who also played at Gencon. The difference is, he placed 4th, without the Speeder in his squad btw. He also knocked out the only undefeated player in Swiss in the first round of the playoffs. I believe you went 4-3 or 3-4, and blamed your losses soley on the strength of the Speeder and your squad selection, and at one point claimed you played close to perfect. I'm not sure, given the history, that you have a right to make claims over what Jorus knows about squad building and strategy. Just saying, try to respect that others might in fact know more than you on occasion.

And to be overly clear, I state none of this to disrespect you, or anything. Quite the opposite. I respect you as a squad builder and a positive contributor to the site and the game. I think you perhaps take criticism too personally sometimes, but that's understandable. Just stick to the topic and tell us why you think this combination of figures works well, instead of "well you don't know how I would run it". That isn't particularly helpful, especially when you have yet to post how you would in fact run it. It's a totally different statement when you have already tried to explain to someone, and they just aren't getting it (either because you can't explain it well, or they aren't in a place to understand it). But to do so before you have tried, isn't really fair to anyone, and just starts fights :)
owaller3
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:37:49 PM
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Joined: 8/25/2008
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I will apologize again. To answer your questions about gencon. First I went 4-3 with my third win against Boba Fett playing Slow Cannon and my first loss to Fingersandteeth in the fourth round.(the only game I didn't play perfect as I underestimated him due to 1 him being late and 2 his squad choice not being slow cannon.) My other two losses were against Slow Cannon as well. The reason why I say I played near perfect was that my opponents said so. I beleive one of their comments was "this was the hardest match I have played all day". Not to be an egomaniac but its fairly well established that I know what I am doing and yes I do believe some people can know more than I do. Obviously Jorus knew more coming into gencon how many people would show up with slow cannon as it took me by surprise. If I'm correct I believe he had direct damage in his squad where I did not. I probably should have showed up on Thursday and not Saturday.
owaller3
Posted: Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:14:44 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 121
billiv15 wrote:


Especially when your "counters" would suggest otherwise. General Skywalker gets smoked by the SS, and is almost completely worthless as an attacker against it in many situations (Flobi generally is that exception). And he gets completely owned by it, once he attacks (as well as disrupted). So to say that using Anakin in your counter, suggests you don't know as much as you claim. (This is not to say that a squad containing GS, cannot beat the SS. I've argued exactly the opposite. What I am pointing out here, is that your squad design doesn't make use of Skywalker in a way that allows him to be at his best against the SS. So you've taken one of his major strengths (his CE) and made it nearly useless. That to me, suggests you do not understand the match up you are claiming superior knowledge on). :)


First, Skywalker isnt the counter to SS GOWK is and you of all people should realize that. Second, the point of the squad is not just to beat SS its to beat a wide variety of squads. Third the key to defeating slow cannon is killing leia not the SS.
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:52:29 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
The problem is, you have tried to spread what it can do against other squads, but you fail to see what a more focused squad can do to you. GOWK is not the impenetrable wall he once was, and not only are there more ways to counter him, they are far cheaper and much more effective. You can't run him like you used to last year, because people will be playing Melee to beat him, and some factions have really killer Melee that is super effective against Gowk. And Zuckuss will keep Anikan out of the fight.

That said, let's keep this on the squads, not the posters.
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:26:03 AM
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Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
Sweet, apology accepted, and glad to see you went back to talking about the squad. I believe at 200, the squad is decent, as you get another 50pts to gain Anakin and GOWK's CEs. But how much better would it look with Flobi over GOWK? Dash with 6 shots, and Anakin with triple? Then with the remaining points go with Jarael and a TBSV. It then becomes one of the top 200pt squads.
joelker41
Posted: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:30:07 AM
Rank: Grand Master Yoda
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/13/2008
Posts: 508
billiv15 wrote:
Sweet, apology accepted, and glad to see you went back to talking about the squad. I believe at 200, the squad is decent, as you get another 50pts to gain Anakin and GOWK's CEs. But how much better would it look with Flobi over GOWK? Dash with 6 shots, and Anakin with triple? Then with the remaining points go with Jarael and a TBSV. It then becomes one of the top 200pt squads.


I agree with Bill. The damage output of the sqwuad is increased by 130 under pristine conditions.
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