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yggral
Posted: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 4:40:05 AM
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if i have luke can i use lukes force points and the then use yoda force poiints in the same turn
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 4:43:33 AM
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Yoda's CE:
Characters in your squad with a Force rating can spend this character's Force points. (A character still can't spend Force points more than once per turn and can't combine its own Force points with this character's.) (u/l mine)

So unless Luke has MOTF2 or 3, then no.

Which Luke are you referring to anyway?
lafemme1014
Posted: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:13:19 AM
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imyurhukaberry wrote:
Yoda's CE:
Characters in your squad with a Force rating can spend this character's Force points. (A character still can't spend Force points more than once per turn and can't combine its own Force points with this character's.) (u/l mine)

So unless Luke has MOTF2 or 3, then no.

Which Luke are you referring to anyway?


It really doesnt matter what luke he is referring to. You are correct in that unless he has MOTF2 or greater he cant do what he is asking.
Darth Percocet
Posted: Sunday, April 4, 2010 8:17:14 AM
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lafemme1014 wrote:
It really doesnt matter what luke he is referring to.


I think he was just curious on what Luke the user was using, doesnt have to matter what luke it is, someone can ask a curious question..
Arkaik
Posted: Sunday, April 4, 2010 8:55:15 AM
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Killing off Yoda of Dagobah will give Luke (or whichever other Force-using ally) not only additional Force Points, but also the equivalence of MOTF 2. Throw Obi-Wan Kenobi or Obi-Wan Kenobi, Unleashed in there too, and upon his demise along with Yoda's, Luke will then benefit from MOTF 3. Luke Skywalker, Jedi is an especially worthwhile recipient of this, given that he has Force Renewal to keep him well stocked in Force Points, and he has both Lightsaber Block and Deflect to make him very hard to damage.

I understand this wasn't what the original poster was asking, but I think it's a useful thing to note.
DarthJak
Posted: Sunday, April 4, 2010 10:32:03 AM
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Crying the only rebel Luke with master of the force is luke and yoda aka loda
so that's that'sLOL
General Ed
Posted: Sunday, April 4, 2010 3:50:37 PM
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Arkaik wrote:
Killing off Yoda of Dagobah will give Luke (or whichever other Force-using ally) not only additional Force Points, but also the equivalence of MOTF 2. Throw Obi-Wan Kenobi or Obi-Wan Kenobi, Unleashed in there too, and upon his demise along with Yoda's, Luke will then benefit from MOTF 3. Luke Skywalker, Jedi is an especially worthwhile recipient of this, given that he has Force Renewal to keep him well stocked in Force Points, and he has both Lightsaber Block and Deflect to make him very hard to damage.

I understand this wasn't what the original poster was asking, but I think it's a useful thing to note.


Actually, this is not true. Master of the force does not stack. So he will only gain Master of the force once.
countrydude82487
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 3:19:33 AM
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Actualy the force spirits dont actualy give you master of the force. THey allow you to spend force an extra time each turn. THis doesnt stack with itsself but it does stack with amster of the force 2 or 3. So if you gave Loda obiwans force spirit when he dies. and he can spend points for things like deflect or stun 4 times per turn.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 4:53:09 AM
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countrydude82487 wrote:
Actualy the force spirits dont actualy give you master of the force. THey allow you to spend force an extra time each turn. THis doesnt stack with itsself but it does stack with amster of the force 2 or 3. So if you gave Loda obiwans force spirit when he dies. and he can spend points for things like deflect or stun 4 times per turn.


Seriously? The force spirits don't stack?
Weeks
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 5:07:12 AM
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Think of it as Extra attack. If you use tarken and legacy vader hondo will effectivly have triple attack. Same here they let you spend FP's more then once per turn......so ya they do stack
Echo24
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 5:16:54 AM
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That's actually not correct.

FAQ wrote:
Q: In a squad with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda of Dagobah, could a single character get Force Spirit 8 and Force Spirit 6 for the combined ability to spend Force points 3 times per turn and have 14 extra Force points?

A: Partially. The extra Force points can be added for 14 total, but you can still only spend Force points one extra time per turn (2 total in most cases.)


The reason Extra Attack stacks is that it specifically says that it does. Force Spirit says you can spend Force Points ONE extra time per turn, and nothing about stacking. It is ONE time more than normal, with "normal" being your base amount (once in most cases, twice with MotF 2, and 3 times with MotF 3).
Darth Percocet
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 6:33:00 AM
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Echo24 wrote:
That's actually not correct.

FAQ wrote:
Q: In a squad with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda of Dagobah, could a single character get Force Spirit 8 and Force Spirit 6 for the combined ability to spend Force points 3 times per turn and have 14 extra Force points?

A: Partially. The extra Force points can be added for 14 total, but you can still only spend Force points one extra time per turn (2 total in most cases.)


The reason Extra Attack stacks is that it specifically says that it does. Force Spirit says you can spend Force Points ONE extra time per turn, and nothing about stacking. It is ONE time more than normal, with "normal" being your base amount (once in most cases, twice with MotF 2, and 3 times with MotF 3).


To add my 2 cents, basically when obi wan (RS) dies & gives force spirit to whoever, as said above you arent giving Motf out, your just allowing the fig you give it to to spend force points 1 extra time there turn, so it you were to have

I.E. Luke skywalker Jedi (KOTOR), Yoda of Dag & Obi Wan (RS).., obi dies & you give spirit to luke, he can now spend force pts 2 times per turn, then next Yoda dies & you give spirit to luke, he is able to spend force points another extra time per turn allowing him to lets say LS block 3 times in a single turn. Its not MOTF 2 or 3 its different but works the same.

Now you wouldnt be able to gain the named force abilitiy MOTF & stack them, you would have to take the higher effect.So basically with force spirit it is somewhat like getting Extra attack because its just adding onto the normal effects that fig has already. So its like your gaining MOTF 2 / 3 but you arent getting MOTF per se, your just gaining the ability to spend FP's an extra time a turn per force spirit

Extra attack stacks because as the name says its an extra attack, so if a fig has double and is getting extra attack via a CE, that fig doesnt have tripple attack now, he has double & extra attack, same goes with Force Spirits, your just adding onto what the fig has already your not replacing what he has already so stacking for it would be legal
Echo24
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 6:44:00 AM
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Darth Percocet wrote:
Echo24 wrote:
That's actually not correct.

FAQ wrote:
Q: In a squad with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda of Dagobah, could a single character get Force Spirit 8 and Force Spirit 6 for the combined ability to spend Force points 3 times per turn and have 14 extra Force points?

A: Partially. The extra Force points can be added for 14 total, but you can still only spend Force points one extra time per turn (2 total in most cases.)


The reason Extra Attack stacks is that it specifically says that it does. Force Spirit says you can spend Force Points ONE extra time per turn, and nothing about stacking. It is ONE time more than normal, with "normal" being your base amount (once in most cases, twice with MotF 2, and 3 times with MotF 3).


To add my 2 cents, basically when obi wan (RS) dies & gives force spirit to whoever, as said above you arent giving Motf out, your just allowing the fig you give it to to spend force points 1 extra time there turn, so it you were to have

I.E. Luke skywalker Jedi (KOTOR), Yoda of Dag & Obi Wan (RS).., obi dies & you give spirit to luke, he can now spend force pts 2 times per turn, then next Yoda dies & you give spirit to luke, he is able to spend force points another extra time per turn allowing him to lets say LS block 3 times in a single turn. Its not MOTF 2 or 3 its different but works the same.

Now you wouldnt be able to gain the named force abilitiy MOTF & stack them, you would have to take the higher effect.So basically with force spirit it is somewhat like getting Extra attack because its just adding onto the normal effects that fig has already. So its like your gaining MOTF 2 / 3 but your arent getting MOYT per se, your just gainging the ability to spend FP's an extra time a turn per force spirit


No no, that's still not right. Note the part of the FAQ that I quoted. Even if both Yoda and Obi give Luke Skywalker, Jedi their Force Spirit, he can spend points ONE extra time per turn. That extra isn't extra beyond however many he can currently spend, it's extra beyond his base amount (his base amount being 1). In your example, Luke can still LS block only twice in one turn, not three times. He can still benefit from Force Spirit and get the extra Force Points, but isn't able to spend more points in one turn.

If you want to compare it to MotF, think of it this way: A character without MotF gains the equivalent of MotF 2 from Force Spirit, but they don't get the actual ability. A character with MotF 2 gets the equivalent of MotF 3, but again not the actual ability, etc. So say a character without MotF gets Obi's Spirit. That character now has the equivalent of MotF 2, but not the ability. Now Yoda dies, and gives his spirit to that character. Since that character does NOT have the MotF 2 ability, he gains the equivalent of MotF 2. Again. Because of stacking rules, this doesn't change anything; just like if you have a character with Double Attack and you grant them Double Attack, they don't really benefit at all.

The difference between this and Extra Attack is that Extra Attack specifically says that it stacks. If it didn't stack, it would work the exact same way. If Force Spirit said that it stacked, it would work like Extra Attack. Since Extra Attack says it stacks, it does. Since Force Spirit doesn't say it stacks, it doesn't.
Echo24
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 6:48:20 AM
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Darth Percocet wrote:
Extra attack stacks because as the name says its an extra attack, so if a fig has double and is getting extra attack via a CE, that fig doesnt have tripple attack now, he has double & extra attack, same goes with Force Spirits, your just adding onto what the fig has already your not replacing what he has already so stacking for it would be legal


That's not why Extra Attack stacks.

Glossary wrote:

On its turn, this character can make an extra attack, but it can't move if it does so. This works just like other special abilities that grant extra attacks, such as Double Attack. This extra attack stacks with those granted by other special abilities and commander effects, and it also stacks with Extra Attacks granted by different special abilities (so the same ally could receive multiple extra attacks in the same turn).


(Emphasis mine)

THAT is why Extra Attack stacks. Because it specifically says so. If you snipped that line from the Glossary, a character with Double Attack and Extra Attack would only be able to attack twice per turn if they didn't move.
joelker41
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 7:03:35 AM
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Darth Percocet wrote:
Echo24 wrote:
That's actually not correct.

FAQ wrote:
Q: In a squad with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda of Dagobah, could a single character get Force Spirit 8 and Force Spirit 6 for the combined ability to spend Force points 3 times per turn and have 14 extra Force points?

A: Partially. The extra Force points can be added for 14 total, but you can still only spend Force points one extra time per turn (2 total in most cases.)


The reason Extra Attack stacks is that it specifically says that it does. Force Spirit says you can spend Force Points ONE extra time per turn, and nothing about stacking. It is ONE time more than normal, with "normal" being your base amount (once in most cases, twice with MotF 2, and 3 times with MotF 3).


To add my 2 cents, basically when obi wan (RS) dies & gives force spirit to whoever, as said above you arent giving Motf out, your just allowing the fig you give it to to spend force points 1 extra time there turn, so it you were to have

I.E. Luke skywalker Jedi (KOTOR), Yoda of Dag & Obi Wan (RS).., obi dies & you give spirit to luke, he can now spend force pts 2 times per turn, then next Yoda dies & you give spirit to luke, he is able to spend force points another extra time per turn allowing him to lets say LS block 3 times in a single turn. Its not MOTF 2 or 3 its different but works the same.

Now you wouldnt be able to gain the named force abilitiy MOTF & stack them, you would have to take the higher effect.So basically with force spirit it is somewhat like getting Extra attack because its just adding onto the normal effects that fig has already. So its like your gaining MOTF 2 / 3 but you arent getting MOTF per se, your just gaining the ability to spend FP's an extra time a turn per force spirit

Extra attack stacks because as the name says its an extra attack, so if a fig has double and is getting extra attack via a CE, that fig doesnt have tripple attack now, he has double & extra attack, same goes with Force Spirits, your just adding onto what the fig has already your not replacing what he has already so stacking for it would be legal



LOL!

Did you read the FAQ you are quoting?

The question was already answered correctly and then another person tries to 'explain it' and then gives the wrong answer.

This happens way to often...there is a reason I only trust the 'Rules Guys' lol.

Darth Percocet
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 7:07:07 AM
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Echo24 wrote:
Darth Percocet wrote:
Extra attack stacks because as the name says its an extra attack, so if a fig has double and is getting extra attack via a CE, that fig doesnt have tripple attack now, he has double & extra attack, same goes with Force Spirits, your just adding onto what the fig has already your not replacing what he has already so stacking for it would be legal


That's not why Extra Attack stacks.

Glossary wrote:

On its turn, this character can make an extra attack, but it can't move if it does so. This works just like other special abilities that grant extra attacks, such as Double Attack. This extra attack stacks with those granted by other special abilities and commander effects, and it also stacks with Extra Attacks granted by different special abilities (so the same ally could receive multiple extra attacks in the same turn).


(Emphasis mine)

THAT is why Extra Attack stacks. Because it specifically says so. If you snipped that line from the Glossary, a character with Double Attack and Extra Attack would only be able to attack twice per turn if they didn't move.



your being to logical in this saying they stack because it says so, yea obviously thats why but as i said that when a fig is getting extra attack, and already had double lets say, they arent considered to have tripple now, they still have double & now get extra, you wouldnt change the SA on the card, yes extra attack stacks cuz it says so, & why it says so its because its not a specific number of attack like trying to put double w/ double, u would already have double, so putting extra with ur already attack SA is as says giving an extra attack to wat you have, doesnt change your already attack SA you have weither it be double or tripple, the fig would still have that extra doesnt change the ability..

Force spirit is the same way, your not granting MOTF, logically would tell u your getting MOTF x but it doest work like that, your being allowed to spend force points an "EXTRA" time per turn, so force spirit would stack w/ another force spirit because your not granting a specific amount of times u can spend fp's, your just adding to it w/ each force spirit
Darth Percocet
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 7:15:55 AM
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joelker41 wrote:
Darth Percocet wrote:
Echo24 wrote:
That's actually not correct.

FAQ wrote:
Q: In a squad with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda of Dagobah, could a single character get Force Spirit 8 and Force Spirit 6 for the combined ability to spend Force points 3 times per turn and have 14 extra Force points?

A: Partially. The extra Force points can be added for 14 total, but you can still only spend Force points one extra time per turn (2 total in most cases.)


The reason Extra Attack stacks is that it specifically says that it does. Force Spirit says you can spend Force Points ONE extra time per turn, and nothing about stacking. It is ONE time more than normal, with "normal" being your base amount (once in most cases, twice with MotF 2, and 3 times with MotF 3).


To add my 2 cents, basically when obi wan (RS) dies & gives force spirit to whoever, as said above you arent giving Motf out, your just allowing the fig you give it to to spend force points 1 extra time there turn, so it you were to have

I.E. Luke skywalker Jedi (KOTOR), Yoda of Dag & Obi Wan (RS).., obi dies & you give spirit to luke, he can now spend force pts 2 times per turn, then next Yoda dies & you give spirit to luke, he is able to spend force points another extra time per turn allowing him to lets say LS block 3 times in a single turn. Its not MOTF 2 or 3 its different but works the same.

Now you wouldnt be able to gain the named force abilitiy MOTF & stack them, you would have to take the higher effect.So basically with force spirit it is somewhat like getting Extra attack because its just adding onto the normal effects that fig has already. So its like your gaining MOTF 2 / 3 but you arent getting MOTF per se, your just gaining the ability to spend FP's an extra time a turn per force spirit

Extra attack stacks because as the name says its an extra attack, so if a fig has double and is getting extra attack via a CE, that fig doesnt have tripple attack now, he has double & extra attack, same goes with Force Spirits, your just adding onto what the fig has already your not replacing what he has already so stacking for it would be legal



LOL!

Did you read the FAQ you are quoting?

The question was already answered correctly and then another person tries to 'explain it' and then gives the wrong answer.

This happens way to often...there is a reason I only trust the 'Rules Guys' lol.



im not quoting the faq, i didnt even look at the faq for this, im trying to explain in easy terms, basically its obvious that it works if typed so, im putting my 2 cents in why it says so, & also thats your choice to listen to the rules guys, bottom line is this is bloomilk, not joelkermilk, so if i wanna write what i want on this board without breaking any forum rule,im gonna because its a public forum for all

the question could of been answered already, but this is a free country last time i checked, so being that im gonna add my 2 cents when i wanna add my 2 cents bottom line

::EDIT:: i just read the faq and yea echo your right it stacks because it says so, but what im saying is if you have double and r getting extra, your arent considered now to have tripple, you still have the double attack SA, your not changing it to tripple allthough it would work as if you did have tripple

what ur saying makes no sense, ur saying how i explained it u would only be able to attack twice that turn, the deff for extra att is the same as double / tripple etc, u can make the extra att if u dont move, so i wanna know how when i said if u have double and extra att do u only get to attack twice? how did u get that from what i wrote is what i wanna know, ur trying to say extra attack changes the SA on the figs card like if it had double getting extra it becomes tripple, it doesnt change the SA on the card it just gives u extra att
Echo24
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 1:50:23 PM
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Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
Darth Percocet wrote:
joelker41 wrote:
Darth Percocet wrote:
Echo24 wrote:
That's actually not correct.

FAQ wrote:
Q: In a squad with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda of Dagobah, could a single character get Force Spirit 8 and Force Spirit 6 for the combined ability to spend Force points 3 times per turn and have 14 extra Force points?

A: Partially. The extra Force points can be added for 14 total, but you can still only spend Force points one extra time per turn (2 total in most cases.)


The reason Extra Attack stacks is that it specifically says that it does. Force Spirit says you can spend Force Points ONE extra time per turn, and nothing about stacking. It is ONE time more than normal, with "normal" being your base amount (once in most cases, twice with MotF 2, and 3 times with MotF 3).


To add my 2 cents, basically when obi wan (RS) dies & gives force spirit to whoever, as said above you arent giving Motf out, your just allowing the fig you give it to to spend force points 1 extra time there turn, so it you were to have

I.E. Luke skywalker Jedi (KOTOR), Yoda of Dag & Obi Wan (RS).., obi dies & you give spirit to luke, he can now spend force pts 2 times per turn, then next Yoda dies & you give spirit to luke, he is able to spend force points another extra time per turn allowing him to lets say LS block 3 times in a single turn. Its not MOTF 2 or 3 its different but works the same.

Now you wouldnt be able to gain the named force abilitiy MOTF & stack them, you would have to take the higher effect.So basically with force spirit it is somewhat like getting Extra attack because its just adding onto the normal effects that fig has already. So its like your gaining MOTF 2 / 3 but you arent getting MOTF per se, your just gaining the ability to spend FP's an extra time a turn per force spirit

Extra attack stacks because as the name says its an extra attack, so if a fig has double and is getting extra attack via a CE, that fig doesnt have tripple attack now, he has double & extra attack, same goes with Force Spirits, your just adding onto what the fig has already your not replacing what he has already so stacking for it would be legal



LOL!

Did you read the FAQ you are quoting?

The question was already answered correctly and then another person tries to 'explain it' and then gives the wrong answer.

This happens way to often...there is a reason I only trust the 'Rules Guys' lol.



im not quoting the faq, i didnt even look at the faq for this, im trying to explain in easy terms, basically its obvious that it works if typed so, im putting my 2 cents in why it says so, & also thats your choice to listen to the rules guys, bottom line is this is bloomilk, not joelkermilk, so if i wanna write what i want on this board without breaking any forum rule,im gonna because its a public forum for all

the question could of been answered already, but this is a free country last time i checked, so being that im gonna add my 2 cents when i wanna add my 2 cents bottom line

::EDIT:: i just read the faq and yea echo your right it stacks because it says so, but what im saying is if you have double and r getting extra, your arent considered now to have tripple, you still have the double attack SA, your not changing it to tripple allthough it would work as if you did have tripple

what ur saying makes no sense, ur saying how i explained it u would only be able to attack twice that turn, the deff for extra att is the same as double / tripple etc, u can make the extra att if u dont move, so i wanna know how when i said if u have double and extra att do u only get to attack twice? how did u get that from what i wrote is what i wanna know, ur trying to say extra attack changes the SA on the figs card like if it had double getting extra it becomes tripple, it doesnt change the SA on the card it just gives u extra att


Ok. You're right in that Double + Extra does not give you Triple Attack. It does give you three attacks, but not the Triple Attack ability. So in that regard, you are correct. I never contended that; in fact, I said myself that Double and Extra stack, and even pointed out why.

I didn't say that if you have Double and get Extra you only get two attacks. In fact, I'm not trying to say any of the things that you seem to think. I said that if you removed part of the glossary, that's how it would work. I was pointing out the difference between how Extra Attack works and how Force Spirit works. Extra Attack only works with Double (as in, you get three attacks if you have Double and Extra) because of the second part of the glossary definition of Extra Attack. If that part were not there, it wouldn't work. Now note that that part isn't there for Force Spirit. That's the reason Force Spirit does NOT stack in the same way that Extra Attack works, and if you get Force Spirit twice you do NOT get to use Force Points two extra times per turn.

Bottom line: Force Spirit does not stack. You may use it twice on the same character to gain extra Force Points, but you do not get to spend Force Points two extra times per turn. Note the part of the FAQ I quoted for a full explanation.

This is different than Extra Attack for all the reasons I already mentioned. Do not compare it to Extra Attack, they do not work the same way.

And yes, you are allowed to put your 2 cents in, but please be sure that you're correct when you do so. You said yourself that you did not look at the FAQ; in my post I quoted the applicable section of the FAQ which answered the question. It makes things much less confusing if you're actually correct when you answer a question. And I'm sorry to say that looking at it "logically" is generally not a great way to figure out rules questions, because some rules (like this) are a little counter-intuitive. The best way is to read the glossary and the FAQ and see if it's addressed, and if it isn't in there, ask on here.
Arkaik
Posted: Monday, April 5, 2010 5:12:22 PM
Rank: Aqualish Assassin
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Joined: 11/16/2009
Posts: 7
Sorry to have started such a contentious debate. But I am glad to now know that the spending of extra FP's gained by two or more Force Spirits (what I originally called the equivalence of MOTF) doesn't stack.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, April 6, 2010 12:51:40 AM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
The issue is, and always has been, is that your clarification often use wrong reasoning, or is just plain confusing, Percocet. Bumping week to month long threads, where the user obviously has gotten and understoood the answer, does not help the poster, it complicates my life.

This thread is a perfect example of this. You are using an ability that does stack to compare it with an ability that does not. Yes, Force Spirit does add to the Multi Attack abilities, but it also stacks with itself. Which can lead to confusion. Overcomplicating the answers is not good, which is why I also hate it when people throw out "exceptions" to my answers, most of which should be able to easily be figured out with how I answer.
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