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Double Claw Attack + Extra Attack + Rend Options
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:36:27 AM
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Someone with Double Claw Attack and Extra Attack would have Double Attack if shooting. Against an adjacent character, would they have Triple Claw Attack?

If a character can make 3 (or more) attacks and has Rend, the bonus applies to the second hit, correct? Even if the second hit is not the second attack - for example: hit, miss, hit.

Would Rend ever apply more than once in the same turn? A third hit? A fourth?
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 3:52:54 AM
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1. Extra would allow you to make three attacks against an adjacent enemy (double would still only allow 2)
2. The only attacks that matter would be the first and second, so if you miss the first, you won't get Rend on the third attack. Also, Twin Attack does not factor into Rend.
3. The only way to have it trigger more than once is to be able to make 4 non-Twin attacks.
This should be covered in the Faq.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:27:22 AM
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So Bossk, with General Windu and Flobi, could have Quadruple Claw Attack. If all four hit, then Rend would trigger twice. I don't see that mentioned in the FAQ. The FAQ seems to indicate that Rend would only apply once no matter what: "Extra Attacks, and immediate attacks that fall before, between, or after those attacks do not factor into the determination of Rend."


Thanks for the answers, but I have to ask what is the point of a glossary that is wrong?

The glossary for Rend: "This special ability applies to some characters who can make more than one attack against an adjacent enemy. If two of the character’s attacks hit the same adjacent enemy in a turn, the second hit gets a +20 bonus to Damage."

There is no ambiguity there - it says "two of the character's attacks" with no restrictions on how those attacks are generated, but that is wrong. It seems to clarify the card, which is ambiguous: "If both of its attacks hit the same adjacent enemy." The card does not address the situation where the character makes more than two attacks. The glossary seems to clarify it but actually gives the wrong answer.

What's funny is that I wasn't sure about whether Extra Attack would stack with Claw Attack (it does). That's why I posted this. I also wasn't sure about how Rend would work with extra attacks. I was going to ask but then I read the glossary and thought, "Oh that's clear. Never mind." I'm glad I went ahead and asked anyway.
LoboStele
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:40:58 AM
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The card wording of 'both attacks' gives you the specific details you need. It's the two attacks that are a part of 'Double Claw Attack' that generate the extra +20 damage. Attacks generated from Extra or Twin Attack would not factor into it.

So yeah, I don't think the Bossk + Gen Windu + Flobi scenario would actually give you two instances of Rend +20. I think it's still just one, though it's tough to say. The Rend glossary would be more clear if it had the wording "regardless of the total number of attacks" or something like that in it.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:53:25 AM
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I think it would be worth it if it was per every 2 attacks that hit (in a row)...including Twin. BlooMilk
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:45:42 AM
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LoboStele wrote:
The card wording of 'both attacks' gives you the specific details you need.


I disagree with that. "Both attacks" implies there are only two attacks, in which case it's clear that both need to hit. When Double Claw Attack becomes Triple Claw Attack through Extra Attack, does it become "any two attacks" or the "first two attacks" or "any two consecutive attacks"? It makes no sense to say "both of the three." That's why I say that according to the card it's ambiguous what happens with Triple Claw Attack (or with Twin). It doesn't say what happens if there are multiple attacks.

From the FAQ and Sithborg, I understand the ruling regarding a third attack or with Twin, but the rule is not clear if you only look at the card, and it's wrong in the glossary.

I'm not sure if Sithborg gives official rulings, but I haven't seen him be wrong yet. But in this case you disagree with him on the Quadruple Claw Attack ruling, and I can't find what he was saying in the FAQ either. So I'm still not sure what would happen in that case.
juice man
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:06:14 AM
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Rend

Q: If a Yuzzum or Wampa gets an immediate attack or Extra Attack from a commander effect can this attack trigger Rend?

A: No. A character with Rend must hit with both its attacks from Double Claw Attack or Double Attack on its turn for Rend to trigger. Extra Attacks, and immediate attacks that fall before, between, or after those attacks do not factor into the determination of Rend.
(from the FAQ's)

So it seems you only get a shot at Rend when using the SA Double Claw Attack or your "normal" Double Attack.
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:15:52 AM
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Upon review, I believe I misrembered the conversation wrong.

You only have one chance of Rend per turn, on the first two normal attacks.
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:11:14 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Upon review, I believe I misrembered the conversation wrong.

You only have one chance of Rend per turn, on the first two normal attacks.


Tangential and somewhat off-the-wall question:

Do extra attacks always follow your normal attacks, or can they be declared before normal attacks?
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:17:52 AM
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There really is no difference. Rend is for the first two attacks, no matter the source. The only one that is slightly different is Twin, which specifically says when it happens.
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:22:26 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
There really is no difference. Rend is for the first two attacks, no matter the source. The only one that is slightly different is Twin, which specifically says when it happens.


That's what I figured, thanks.
LoboStele
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:30:32 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
LoboStele wrote:
The card wording of 'both attacks' gives you the specific details you need.


I disagree with that. "Both attacks" implies there are only two attacks, in which case it's clear that both need to hit. When Double Claw Attack becomes Triple Claw Attack through Extra Attack, does it become "any two attacks" or the "first two attacks" or "any two consecutive attacks"? It makes no sense to say "both of the three." That's why I say that according to the card it's ambiguous what happens with Triple Claw Attack (or with Twin). It doesn't say what happens if there are multiple attacks.

From the FAQ and Sithborg, I understand the ruling regarding a third attack or with Twin, but the rule is not clear if you only look at the card, and it's wrong in the glossary.

I'm not sure if Sithborg gives official rulings, but I haven't seen him be wrong yet. But in this case you disagree with him on the Quadruple Claw Attack ruling, and I can't find what he was saying in the FAQ either. So I'm still not sure what would happen in that case.


Yeah, I understand the difference there. The only thing I can figure is that the wording for Rend was developed based on the pieces it appeared on, and none of those pieces have anything besides Double or Double Claw Attack.

Incidentally, on the tangential question, I would assume that 'Extra' attacks have to be made AFTER your normal ones. I'm not positive on that, but the general idea is that you give up your move action in order to make the Extra Attack. Probably doesn't really matter, and like Sithborg said, in the case of Rend, it's been ruled that Rend occurs based on the first two normal attacks of your turn.
LeftiesWillRule
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:58:52 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
1. Extra would allow you to make three attacks against an adjacent enemy (double would still only allow 2)


I disagree. Double doesn't let you make 2 attacks, it lets you make "one extra." Since Double Attack and Double Claw Attack aren't the same ability, they would stack.
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:06:49 AM
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LeftiesWillRule wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
1. Extra would allow you to make three attacks against an adjacent enemy (double would still only allow 2)


I disagree. Double doesn't let you make 2 attacks, it lets you make "one extra." Since Double Attack and Double Claw Attack aren't the same ability, they would stack.


That is incorrect this is covered in the FAQ.
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