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if there were 5 minis you could ban from the game Options
shatterpoint7
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:25:50 AM
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Joined: 4/19/2009
Posts: 487
1. mouse droid
2. whorm loathsom
3. mas amedda
4. cad bane
5. general riekkan
cicrush13
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:56:54 AM
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Joined: 3/15/2009
Posts: 909
Location: Michigan
1. Riekaan
2. Cad Bane
3. Thrawn (IE)
4. General Skywalker
5. Gha Nachkt
LeftiesWillRule
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:05:20 AM
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Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 516
Location: Dover, DE (soon Cedarville OH)
Why would you ban Whorm Loathsom, Cad Bane, General Skywalker, Thrawn, or Gha Nachkt? All of them are far from broken. Loathsom breathes new life into otherwise near-unused pieces like Aurra CS, Durge JH, and 4-LOM BH. He's a great way to use living pieces in the Separatist faction like Tyranus. Cad Bane is the most expensive of the GMA/Double?Twinners, and fragile enough to be a risk to use. General Skywalker is a great Republic piece without being overpowered (especially the way his CE was worded). Gha Nachkt is the only reason I would play the classic Battle Droids in the Separatists, and works just fine. Thrawn essentially brings the old Grand Admiral Thrawn back up to speed with the current meta.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:14:28 AM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
Mouse Droid should have had an ability like: "Very small: Does not provide cover and your opponent may choose to not count this character as the nearest enemy."



Segastorm
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:24:46 AM
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Joined: 4/9/2010
Posts: 658
Location: West Bend, Wisconsin
1:Rieekan
2:Dodonna
3:Boba BH
4:GOWK
5: Twi-Lek scoundrel
pitcherstar
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:32:22 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 59
1. Dodonna (worst piece ever designed for his cost)
2. Rieeken (2nd worst piece ever designed for his cost)
3. Cad Bane
4. ugnaught demos
5. mouse droids
TheStarkiller
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:14:04 AM
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Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 271
1. Mas Amedda
2. R2-astromech
3. Cad Bane
4. Dash Rendar
5. Captain Rex

(double and twin should have never been combined with GMA on anything but a melee attack character. Of course this means that there exists no melee attack character with double, twin and GMA)

[edit: I would have put dodonna on there, but there wasn't enough room given Rex should also be on the list]
Fordo
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:22:05 AM
Rank: Wookiee Freedom Fighter
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Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 14
1. Rieekan
2. Dodonna
3. Dash Rendar
4. Captain Rex
5. R7 astromech droid

i agree. no ranged mini should have double, twin and GMA. however i think a 8 point mini with overide can be broken too.
ArtemisCFrog43
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:25:50 AM
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Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 328
Location: Akron, Ohio
Why would you guys ban Dash Rendar? I think Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler is WAY more dangerous. Flapper
DarthJak
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:27:41 AM
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Joined: 7/30/2008
Posts: 1,290
Location: Stow Ohio, just north of Dantooine (vacay on Ando)
LOL is this a list list of pieces you wished you had,cuz your opponent keeps beatin' you with themLOL
swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:45:02 AM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
1) ERC
2) Dodonna
3) Yodabuck
4) Princess Leia
5) JWM

But really, I'm not for banning anything.
cicrush13
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:46:12 AM
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Joined: 3/15/2009
Posts: 909
Location: Michigan
DarthJak wrote:
LOL is this a list list of pieces you wished you had,cuz your opponent keeps beatin' you with themLOL


Riekaan and Cad Bane are two of the pieces that beat me in the last few battles i had with my bro. And I do have them.
RogueThirteen
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:52:39 AM
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Joined: 1/16/2009
Posts: 74
DarthJak wrote:
LOL is this a list list of pieces you wished you had,cuz your opponent keeps beatin' you with themLOL


Well, they seem to be pieces that go into almost every squad for their respective factions (R2 Astro, Rex, Dodanna, Reikan) which does seem to suggest that these pieces are probably substantially better than any of the 100s of other pieces available to that faction, so at the very least their existence hampers the playability of a large proportion of the rest of their faction and can limit squad choice.


For me, problematic minis predominately aren't ones that just out-class everything the opponent can throw out and are too difficult to defeat for their cost (ie pre-ban GOWK), but more often than not are the ones that so far outshine most other alternatives that they kill the playability of most of the rest of that faction's alternatives (and I'm not talking about the always unplayable pieces of CS, RotS, etc).

My list would probably be:

1) R2, Astromech
2) Captain Rex
3) General Reikan
4) Mas Ameda (especially before mouse droids existed as an option for non Rep/Emp factions.
5) Knobby White Spider (just because everything about this piece should never have existed, hah)
AdmiralAckbar
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 2:57:03 AM
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Joined: 4/16/2008
Posts: 286
I don't support banning of any figures would rather have there cost adjusted.
For the purpose of this thread I think these figures are undercosted.

1. General Dodonna
2. General Rieekan
3. Boba Fett Bounty Hunter
4. Ugnaught Demolitionist
5. Captain Rex
creme_brule
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:08:32 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 12/31/2009
Posts: 1,701
1. Mouse droids
2. Mas ammeda
3. General rieekan
4. Thrawn IE
5. Dodonna/R2 astro

mouse droids pretty much broke some commanders (TBSV...) mas ammeda was the first 'broken' piece (dont know if r2 counts). Rieekan broke about 50 percent of rebel squads...thrawn created that great power shift towards opportunist (not to mention that is CE is 'powerful', lol) ...couldnt decide between dodo and r2 astro bc both help their squads really great...im leaning towards r2 bc dodo can be counered...in a way.
urbanjedi
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:13:52 AM
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Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
Only 3 pieces IMO are really a problem in the current Meta.

1. Dodonna (although could be easily fixed if it was made so that you couldn't choose each phase either choose at the beginning of the game or the beginning of the round)
2+3. Lancer/Yobuck (the ability to take out multiple enemy characters in a single activation with basically no drawbacks is very overpowered)


Other than that I don't really see any pieces that are way out there as far as needing to be banned or anything.

Still in favor of not banning anything and looking for alternate methods to fix them (ie new pieces from the V-set come to mind)

FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:28:27 AM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
1. All things GMA. "Greater attack" (multiple attacks and moving the same turn) and "Mobile attack" (move before and after attacking) should not have been combined, especially on non-melee pieces. Garm's CE is a better approach to the GMA idea, (but the half-speed limitation isn't necessary).
2. Mouse droids, but because of ridiculous activations that make the game boring to watch, and thematically absurd blocking. The CE propagation is fine.
3. Yobuck.
4. Rieekan
5. Doombot

#3 (Yobuck) just needs more counters -- Stuckuss and death shots are a good start. #4 (Rieekan) and 5 (Doombot) are just under-costed. I don't think they're "broken". Being a tier-1 piece should mean it's playable in a tier-1 squad. No piece should be so powerful/undercosted that it's a must-have in pretty much every single squad for that faction.
nerfherderpictures
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:40:36 AM
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Joined: 10/20/2009
Posts: 175
1. rieken this peice of plastic is so evil
2. dodonda tempo breaks the game
3. anakin fs just because of rieken
4.yobuck
5. lancer
Robin
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:21:30 AM
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Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 188
Location: Gotham City, Wayne Manor
The # 1 - General Rieeken

It's simple he's easily the most broken piece in the game. Why else would every rebel squad have him? Giving all people on your team mobile and evade regardless of range is just to powerful. Don't forget his rediculous point cost of only 14 points

#2 - General Dodonna

Being able to control how many people you activate allows you to control the entire tempo of the game, which is by itself a game winner. Plus he cost only 9 points, it's no wonder he's in every rebel and new republic team.

#3 - General Obi Wan Kenobi

Soresu Style Mastery is just plain rediculious, no damage with a save of 11. Which gets worse with his master of the force 2 followed by the fact that he has force renewal. He also has a great commander effect, thats not what makes him lame though, its honestly just his SSM it's just to powerful.

#4 - Mas Amedda

Commander effects are limited for a reason, there shouldn't be a 8 point piece that makes them unlimited. If there was one he should be fringe for all teams, i think its completely unfair that the empire and republic gets to have all of there CE's unlimited for only 8 points when they all ready have most of the best CE's in the game.

#5 - R2 - D2 Astromech Droid

He got the name doombot for a reason, for only 9 points he can close any door and move any character thats adjacent 12 squares. Thats just silly how can r2 d2 move anakin or obi wan he's tiny? How come they couldn't make it fairer and give r7 tow cable?



If you really think about it these are the 5 broken SWM's pieces. Cad Bane is good maybe to good, yet he has his weak points. He has only 80 HP, 80 damage isn't that hard to do, you base him till he dies. Boba Fett, BH he only can shot twice thats not nearly enough with todays double twin, and triple twin. Lancer droids, there good yes, broken no. They only have 50 HP for a 31 point piece with 17 defense, you can kill these things before they can reach you. Yobuck, he's good at killing mouse droids yes, but you get AOO everytime he can't kill a piece and kepts on moving. True he has 160 but he can only attack each piece once so max he can do is 20 damage, true he has 18 attack so he won't miss much, but still its only 20 damage, plus he cost 51 points so he isn't cheap. Lots of people put mouse droids, but i disagree. people need mouse droids to extend the CE, mouse droids are every other fractions deformed mas amedda. They only make it go 6 more squares, not unlimited range, there no where near as good. Plus people get a lot of them with gha, so that they can have enough activations to be able to not let people that are using general dodonna completly out activate them.

I think that if you really think about it these 5 pieces are the honest trouble makers.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:43:53 AM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
I agree that Mice are needed to extend CEs, especially since Mas exists. My problems with mouse droids are the other 2 problems...

* 10-20 of them in a squad. It only 'breaks' the game in that it makes the game no fun. It makes me lose interest. Sometimes I watch Vassal games because they're interesting to watch. Games with so many Mouse Droids and sometimes 5-10 minutes of spin, spin, spin bore me to tears.

* The other problem is the thematic disconnect of a Mouse providing not just cover for other pieces, but preventing non-accurate shooters from shooting past them. I understand the 20def - it should be hard to shoot the little droids - but you shouldn't be forced to target them. I know SWM is not a simulation, but if it weren't for the Star Wars theme how many of us would be here playing the game? Thematic disconnect like that is not good.

GOWK was broken before the SSM fix. (I favored the fix that made SSM like Illusion - make the opponent roll the save so GOWK's Mettle didn't factor in.) I think the others that you mention are simply under-costed. The concepts are fine, but the cost should be higher.
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