|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
The topic of new factions came up in another. Splitting the topic off here... === FlyingArrow wrote:Sithborg wrote:Sub factions and themes, sure. Whole new factions just can't really be balanced in (especially since no pieces will have been made to represent them well). I think you could take sub-factions and turn them into legitimate factions if you wanted to. There are only 15 different Vong pieces. We have 10 different Rodians. We have 11 Black Sun pieces (if I count correctly). We have 40+ bounty hunters (not that they're a cohesive group). There are even 8 ewoks if you count Threepio. If you don't mind having figures do double duty or pulling in figures that aren't in the subfaction, you could easily create a 15 piece faction consisting only of Vset figures. Black Sun especially, since there aren't really any race restrictions there. You'd have an interesting wording challenge, though, if you create a Black Sun faction. You couldn't call it 'Black Sun' because there's an SA 'Black Sun' and reference to 'Black Sun' refer to the SA. You'd have to call it 'Black Sun Syndicate' or something like that so it's a different name. Either that or you'd have to use confusing errata. If this were to happen, one of the CEs or SAs should be a common sense one that includes all the fringe pieces as part of the faction proper: "Black Sun allies count as Black Sun Syndicate", where "Black Sun allies" refers to all the existing fringe pieces with the Black Sun SA or Black Sun in their name. I'd actually look forward to an official Black Sun faction. You could really boost Xizor a lot if you didn't have to worry about how he might break things by being combined with every single other faction. Sithborg wrote:The biggest issue with any new faction is balancing it among the others. How many complaints about Sith, OR, and Vong not being up to par with the other factions? Add in another one, you just make it harder, especially when the designers want to have as close as possible set lists as possible.
And seriously, what you proposed is just terrible rules wise. We need to keep the rules as close to as what was printed to keep the reentry to the game as easy as possible. Messing with the squad constructions rules like that is a big turn off (and makes my rules sense scream). Sub factions/themes are perfect for the future of the game. FlyingArrow wrote:What I proposed is no different than Kota's Militia counting as Fringe for the purpose of CEs. It perhaps sounded confusing because 'Black Sun' and 'Black Sun Syndicate' sound too similar. Anyway, we're pretty far from the topic at hand so I'll drop it at this point.
Edit: Looking back at your comment, maybe you thought I was trying to make all the existing Black Sun pieces non-fringe so no other faction could use them? Not sure if that was what you were thinking, but that's not what I was intending. Just to make them count as part of the faction for CEs or any other relevant purpose (such as a game that is supposed to be faction pure).
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/29/2009
Posts: 496
Location: Nebraska
|
Maybe something like a character with "If your squad has no characters costing more than 5 points who do not have "Black Sun" on their cards, characters in your squad get bonuses of some kind."
Wording seems pretty darn convoluted, but the idea is what I'm focused on.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
Okay, I missed that about it being a specialized SA for the Black Sun faction, not just changing the base rules to make it work.
Again, the issue of balancing and continuing an 11th faction is not something I would wish to subject the designers to.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
I wouldn't expect a new faction any time soon (if ever), but if the game keeps going long enough it might be a good way to shake things up. My main point was that it's do-able. If the pieces are costed appropriately, the new faction can be on par with existing ones. Appropriate costing is a challenge, though, of course.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/16/2009
Posts: 74
|
I think the best solution would be, as was sort of suggested above, to just make new characters that can only be used or grant big bonuses if certain squad-building limitations are met.
Such as an Ewok Chief with some commander effect like: If your squad contains only pieces with Ewok in the title or the Ewok special ability, then bonus ____.
Or a Jabba with something like "Restricted (may only be included in a squad that contains only Fringe characters)" and then some nice benefits.
That could allow for themed-squad pseudofactions such as Jabba's criminals or an Ewok swarm or the like. Of course, these pseudofaction-creating pieces would have to be pretty darn sweet to warrant running them without potential access to things like door control, faction commander effects, etc. etc. etc.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/3/2008
Posts: 584
Location: Cincinnati, OH
|
I've recently started playing another game, Malifaux, that has some really odd faction interactions. Mainly their Fringe pieces can obviously be used in other factions, but they also have what I would call 'sub-factions' that allow some movement from place to place. Like some squads are able to use 'beasts' from any faction, and some are able to use 'constructs' (robots) from any faction.
So about the only way I see something like a 'new' faction occurring is through something like this, and most likely, only through fleshing out the Black Sun sub-faction. I think there's some good synergy already started there, so I'm sure the V Set designers can do something to work with that.
So, perhaps if a new Xizor or something had an ability something like "Only Fringe, characters with Black Sun, or characters whose name contains Black Sun may be in a squad with this character". Then you also create some pieces for say, the Imperial Faction, where it's like an officer or something, but does dealings under the table with the Black Sun. Could have some fun with the story elements of that.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 942
|
I personally do not wish to see new faction myself but would love to see the sub-factions like black sun extended and maybe even new sub-faction down the line.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/14/2008
Posts: 2,063
|
Fringe is probably the best place to keep sub-factions like Karrde's or even Zann's.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 942
|
markedman247 wrote:Fringe is probably the best place to keep sub-factions like Karrde's or even Zann's. Why? For example Pages Commando's they could easily be a sub faction in Rebels or New Republic. All sub-factions need is a boost of some sort that help only them be that though a Sa or CE. In many ways Rebels already have this in both Hoth Troopers and Rebel Commandos, they are a sub faction except in name. Anyway as you mention him I would like a fringe Karrde.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/3/2008
Posts: 584
Location: Cincinnati, OH
|
Yeah, Commandos are definitely a sub-faction of their own within the Rebels, that's for sure. Could even consider Troopers as a sub-faction of sorts in the Rebels and Imperials.
Doing some things like Karrde's folks or Zann, would be cool. Some other options would be like Admiral Zaarin's splinter group of Imperials from the TIE Fighter game series. There's lots of options out there. :)
|
|
|
Guest |