Thanks to the previews at Gamers, we now know 4 or 5 figures from the new set. ONe thing that (in my opinion) is nice about the previews is that unlike with wizards, it isn't too late to give some constructive criticism once previews are released (not that Wizards would have done much about it anyways).
That is why I decided to try to address the selection of Exar Kun to represent Exar Kun, Dark Force Spirit.

Sure, as long as the Judge is OK with it, we can use Anakin FS even if Exar is the one on the card. However, IF Anakin is the better choice, and if he will actually end up being used more than Exar (especially since Exar is darn hard to get), why not make anakin the suggested mini?

Here are the reasons why I think anakin would be better:
-A force spirit looks more like a force spirit, almost regardless of similarity in haircut or outfit.
-Anakin is much cheaper to buy and much easier to find to buy.
-It is quite possible (even likely?) that Anakin will get used more anyways. (see above)
-It would be obvious when anakin is seen in a Sith squad as to who he represents, whereas Exar could be either CotF card or V-card. (admittedly minor issue)
-Exar Kun DFS would actually by the rules still count as a character with a lightsaber (admittedly minor (probably) issue)

And why exar would be better:
The outfit and facial features of Exar Kun (Obviously) match Exar Kun.

There may be other advantages Exar has over Anakin, so please share them if you have them to help inform those wanting to participate in the discussion.

NOTE: This poll is in no way guaranteed to have any bearing on the actual decision of which piece will represent Exar DFS.

The sixth choice is just in case but If you do select it please be specific as to why.

1. A lot of figs are going to not look right, unless you are a customizer. Neither fig looks right, so it is a matter of opinion.
2. Designers shouldn't limit them to the later sets. There are going to be stuff people will need to get from the earlier sets.
3. Can't predict the future.
4. Honestly, it will be QUITE obvious when you compare a squad using the 84 pt Exar vs the 14 pt Exar. Seriously, it will be quite obvious when squads are revealed.
5. Unless they have some weird new ability in the pipeline about people within a range having a Lightsaber, this is not a rules issue.

Much like rules issues, design issues won't be decided by polls.

1. Yep. Opinion.
2. They shouldn't be limited, but given the choice between an equally viable rare and VR, the rare should be used. (Whether these 2 options are equally viable is another question.)
3. True.
4. Obvious for the more experienced players, but may cause confusion for less experienced players. I think during gameplay, the FS gives a more obvious visual of "not a threat to attack me".
5. Unless I'm mistaken, lightsaber vs non-lightsaber is the only rule where the figure itself comes into play. Even though there is no current rule where it matters if a FS has a lightsaber, the ruling should be clear now. If Exar is the official suggested mini, the image on the card should have the lightsaber erased if the FS legally has no lightsaber.

The only reason i have to care who represents Exar is that I have Anakin fs and don't have Exar Kun, but this seems like a non issue because it was said that the judge would allow it.

I wonder will ever D&D minis ever be used. I know this is Star wars and not D&D. But, I thought once I saw a ghostly spirit looking thing in one of their sets. I don't have to worry about getting Exar. But, he would not be easy to chase down. Same may be said about certain D&D minis.

Get a sticker and write on it the character name as it appears on the card atatch the sticker to the top of the base of the figure representing said character - you now have an undisputable "custom" (in that it is no longer a stock figure due to the sticker) that should eliminate any and all possible confusion.

I am a little sorry that the thread has gotten away from discussion solely of characters, but bigger issues have arisen. I was trying to provide some constructive criticism that would help in the making of the set. Instead, a debate about that turns into essentially "It has already been decided. You all have no input once we give you previews of what have been stated to not be final versions. So even though we can change, we won't even consider changing. This is because we say you have no input. If you would like to discuss whether you should have input or not, we will repeat
that you have no input, or try to change the subject in hope that you will forget that we said that this is not the coimmunity effort we painted it to be."

I believe the design committee is the best group we have. Why can't the best get better? As I said right after the Wizards announcements on gamers, I understand everyone can't be in the design of every piece, but, what's wrong with opening up some previews of just a few for discussion and criticism in order to see if a change should be made?

What is the name of the whole operation anyways? Something like the SWM Players Committee? I never knew if one was ever stated. I think it's been more "what's going on over at Gamers." If the actions will fit the name of "The Star Wars Miniatures Oligarchic Adminsitration Council," please tell us now. At least with that, I will know that it is not the community effort that so many had worked for, and then can just decide whether to use V-cards at all based on what will be released.

But I think as long as there is some suggestio by those involved that the Design team ever gave a darn about anyhting the community has said, there should at least be some lines for criticism while there's still a chance to do something about it.

"If you can't beat em, join em." I can't come even close to doing better than the design team can. I want to join, but if they spit in the face of the most miniscule efforts by those outside the elite circle to be helpful, I find it hard to go along with. If the Gamers elite say "here's how it's gonna be, take it or leave it" Fine. Jeez, why did I even say "if" in the last sentence? That IS what they are saying. But why? What good does that do? Getting some input on 5 or so characters harms the game how? Sure, there will still be complaints about every single piece. But why not even try to get some legit input on several of the pieces? Evrn if there is signifcant harm in giving a rat's behind about player input on a small percentage of the pieces, how does that outweigh the benefits of actually have a community effort to a reasonable degree?

I think it's quite sad that bill accuses me of having a "my way or the highway" type attitude when just a few lines later we see "this is how it's gonna be, and if you keep complaining we'll stop giving you guys previews."

I am thoroughly disgusted at the attitude of dismissing criticism now, while there may be a chance to do something. At least if the Gamers elite give a minor darn at all before the set is totall finalized for release, there will be a lot more ground for them to stand on when the complaints REALLY start coming in when the set is released.

You can do better. Why not do it? This Exar thing is really a minor example, but still a good chance to show that you actually might be open to a community effort. if you're not, say so, but I would not be surprised if that oligarchic attitude drives more than a few away. I get the design team doesn't need (and probably (IMO) doesn't want) any community input. The game will go on whether 50 people sign on to V-cards or 1000 do. How does the oligarchy ensure that more people will want to get and stay involved? Does opportunity for input on 8-10% of a set really screw the game over that much?

I don't see why the design team having discussed something equals it having been fully discussed.

Considering that there's discreepancy even over among the Gamers elite, I think you haven't considered all the angles.





As you can see, there's still a lot that isn't being made clear to much of the community.



Not to confuse people? I think it's about time we get some discussion going about how exactly this alleged community effort is going down. The fact that multiple people have said that input will be ignored doesn't concern you? Fine, accuse me of being a downer. I get it if you don't want to have anything to do with making the game better instead just waiting for a few people to tell you how it's gonna be, but please try not to get in the way of those that do so by asking questions and making suggestions. It's a GOOD thing if you or anyone else gets confused because I have (somewhat accidentally) brought to light important but confusing issues that NEED answering if this effort is to reach its potential. I think a bit more accountability and clarity would help us all, of course, if I stated the game would be a community effort but then really only take a token glance at a list compiled by the community and then threatened to withold previews when someone from the community tried to help, then I would want this all to go away too.

Honestly I still think you're making too big of an issue over the "representing mini" ordeal, afterall that is what this entire thread is focussed on via the title and content.

His stats however are certainly cause for concern - especially the lack of defeating information on the card - this is a huge oversight in my opinion and needs to be remedied in the final release.

Why? Why should we chose a R over a VR? So if we make a new Revan piece, you're saying we should choose some other R from a recent set to represent him instead of the Revan from TFU? If we create a new Boba Fett, should we pick just a generic Mando to represent him instead??

We can't let those kinds of things dictate the decisions. This is, and always will be, a COLLECTIBLE miniatures game. If that means some people have to track down the old Exar Kun from COTF, then so be it. And....oh look! When you pay to buy COTF Exar you'd essentially get TWO pieces to play with now! What a deal!

In the end, if you had to go and buy pieces to have all of the "suggested minis" for the V Set, you'd probably end up spending less than you would to buy a complete set for any of the WOTC sets anyways.



Look closer. It is erased. ;)



Hehe, good thinking there. Yes, in fact, there is at least one character in the V Set which has been incredibly difficult to find a SWM to represent properly. However, there is a cheap D&D mini (less than $5 IIRC) that could be used instead, and is a very nice match. So, yes, it has been considered, and will likely be the suggestion.




Hold on a second there. Based on the thread, I was the only person who was saying anything along those lines at all, and that was ONLY in reference to THIS point in the process. It's been stated MULTIPLE times that community input has been heavily used in the design of this set. There will be characters in this set that WOTC probably never even knew about, much less would have actually created, simply because the community asked for them. Nobody ever said the community would be ignored, and so at this point, I think you're losing sight of the forest for the trees.



OK man, here's where I'm going to call you out for real, and it's because I've been EXACTLY where you are. That kind of attitude will get you no where in life. It will only cause you more pain. Trust me, I know. I know all too well. I was raised with basically the same ideal, that things can always improve, and that if it can be better, it HAS to be better. All you end up doing, is exactly what's happened here: cause irritation, drive people away, and stir up debate. Sure, things can be better many times. But that doesn't mean it isn't good already. And if you always take the approach of "well, I won't stop until it's better", well then you'll always find something flawed that still needs to be fixed. Or some little tweak that could still be done. You gotta learn when to step back, look at the greater picture, and appreciate what's been done. Love things for the few flaws that they do have.

Again, I'm not preaching to you here man. I've recently learned a lot of that stuff myself (like, in the last 2-3 months), and I'm by no means perfect. But your statements there seriously hit home with me and made me say "Woah, that's exactly the kind of stuff I've said before."

You put yourself, and the things your working on, up on too high of a pedestal, and the only place you have to go from there is down.