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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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I've been reading over some squads that went to Gen Con this year and noticed the Lack of Boba BH and Cad Bane. It never occurred to me, but i was actually surprised when I realized these two pieces were not being included in tier one squads. I was curious as to why not.
We all know how useful they are, and that they're the two most chased pieces that this game had to release. Looking at their stats, I know I wouldnt want to go up against a squad that has either included... as their abilities make them deadly even in the most inept hands.
So what is it? Is it that these two pieces just aren't as good has people have blown them up to be? Is it that tier one guys avoid these pieces out of some sort of honor? Or is it that they're avoided because theyre "too" good, and its a prideful thing?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/15/2009 Posts: 909 Location: Michigan
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It's not that they're "too good". It's that in a 150 or 200 pt squad they eat up over 25% of your points and especially Cad Bane is fragile against melee attacks. I'm not saying that they are bad pieces by any means. What we saw at Gen Con was tempo control and a lot of levitation in the squads that were used.
I find that I like to use them more as fun pieces and not for competitive play just b/c if they die on me without any significant damage output, I've lost the game more than likely.
I hope this helps.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 11/12/2009 Posts: 390
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Boba Fett actually has pretty limited damage output for his points cost, BH is a really expensive figure that is self saficent, but has a max damage output of 40 which is really low for a figure of his cost, something which Han Solo and Lando at under half of the cost can put out fairly reliabily. Also can't gain that much buzz from many common commanders. He's a cool repentation of the charcter, but you can't rely on him to win games based on his disintergration alone and is ultimately pretty overpriced for most squads, who need those points elsewhere or have better things that they could be buffing.
Merc is somewhat better, since he retains many of BH's great stuff (Accurate Shot, extremely high attack stat and health for a shooter) and conbinues it with some awesome traits of his own (Cunning Attack, Intution) and can actually gain off many commonly used commanders. His high price tag puts people off though, so he tends to be ignored or hard to get anyways.
Cade Bane is kind of the same as a more practical Boba Fett BH. He's got pretty awesome abilitys, including flight, 4 attacks with greater mobile, stealth. But his accuacy is apprently pretty low and he lacks accurate shot so he can often waste shots on things that are not worth the effect and for some reason, people consider him really frail when he's actually above average HP for a shooter. All in all, he's a lot of points for a raw shooter which people can be hard pressed to dedicate to.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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Boba Fett, BH is so, so very far from the pedestal most players put him on. For 62 pts, he is actually pretty limited. He has real issues if he doesn't get a Disentegration off, and since most top players don't like to count on that roll of a 20, don't use him.
Cad Bane has some interesting combos, that allow him to have far more damage potential than Fett, so he is definately a bit more useful. Mouse Droids can really screw him up, though.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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Yet, these pieces still remain in the $30-$60 price range. Does this price come from fanboy tax alone? We can all agree that they are good pieces, but that there are probably better options, as made clear by this years gencon winner. However, the pieces we do see showing up... kybuck, rex, luke commando, reikan, while more popular, and effective, are a fraction of the cost of these pieces.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 8/24/2008 Posts: 5,201
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Does Revan's cost reflect his playability? Boba is still mistakingly believed to be super powerful.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/15/2009 Posts: 909 Location: Michigan
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The price is a combination of things...the rarity, how hard they are to pull, and yes there is that fan aspect to them that influences the price.
Take mouse droids as an example. They are still hard to pull and are still valued at $10-12 each. You need to have atleast 5 or 6 to be playable. By that point you have already spent more on them than you have on either Boba or Cad.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008 Posts: 1,288
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I don't consider either Boba BH or Cad to be very good pieces at all (with Cad having slightly more potential than Boba). As has been stated, Boba only reliably does 40 damage per round, something that can be met and exceeded by many pieces at half his price or less. If depending on extreme rolls like 20s were a good idea, the best squads would be Boba BH, Kreia, and Palpatine Sith Lord (the second two for the betrayal). Those pieces don't get played in the top levels because relying on those 20s (or 1s) is just poor planning.
Cad is a little better, but I'm still not a fan. With such low survivability for such an expensive piece he just seems like a really poor value for his points. Not to mention his +10 attack is pitiful for his cost, especially without accurate shot. Couple that with the prevelance of Mouse Droids in some common squads and you will spend a lot of time shooting Mice needing 14s (and Heaven forbid it's a GGDAC squad).
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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cicrush13 wrote:The price is a combination of things...the rarity, how hard they are to pull, and yes there is that fan aspect to them that influences the price.
Take mouse droids as an example. They are still hard to pull and are still valued at $10-12 each. You need to have atleast 5 or 6 to be playable. By that point you have already spent more on them than you have on either Boba or Cad.
They're actually pretty easy to pull. It's just that people want so many of them. There are four Mouse Droids for every Rieekan out there. But when some players want 20 Mouse Droids, it drives up the price. And the $10-$12 is an old price or you're going straight to the retailers. They don't clear $10 on ebay these days, shipping included.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/3/2009 Posts: 96
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First of all, fantastic thread title.
Boba BH's time has come and gone in the competitive meta. 40 points of max damage from a 62 point fig just isn't good enough. I can have Captain Rex and Dash Rendar in my squad for the cost of Boba BH and still have one point left over.
I do think Cad Bane has a place in top-tier squads, but it has to be in something like an Imp swap squad where you can move him into position to shoot without ever exposing him until the moment he attacks, and then swap him out of there in a hurry. He's more a scalpel than a beatstick--he has to be used very, very surgically. If he gets caught where your opponent can pile on in a hurry, he's a 54 point fig who will die in about 10 seconds.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/23/2009 Posts: 1,195
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Them costing a lot really has nothing to do with their usefullness. I mean sure Cad Bane and Boba Fett BH are both really cool pieces, the problem you face with them is they are relied on to win the game by themselves for you and they just dont do that very well.
The game has really captured how the characters work, i mean they are bounty hunters that work for themselves and dont like other people helping them thats kind of how the pieces play. (besides Cad working as a sub-in for Vader ina B&B squad but i still consider that extremely fragile).
I think it speaks volumes that you didnt see cad or boba bh in any of the top tables at gencon cause quite frankly they just dont cut it at a T1 200 point tourney, then again not everyone plays T1 all the time. If you still like using Boba and cad then keep playing them, but i think you will find more often then not people will go after cheaper shooters and boost them then play high cost shooters without boosts.
As cabbage has already said your choice comes down to BFBH or Dash AND Rex +1 point the choice there is pretty easy :)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 871 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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FlyingArrow wrote: They're actually pretty easy to pull. It's just that people want so many of them. There are four Mouse Droids for every Rieekan out there. But when some players want 20 Mouse Droids, it drives up the price. And the $10-$12 is an old price or you're going straight to the retailers. They don't clear $10 on ebay these days, shipping included.
Gotta disagree with you on Mouse Droids being easy to pull. With the whole Target mass price reduction I've bought maybe 15 boosters over 2 months. I've gotten only 1 Mouse Droid. Yet in that time I've managed to pull 2 Rieekans. Going by your logic I should have pulled 8 Mouse Droids ;)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/23/2009 Posts: 1,399 Location: MD
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You're basing your conclusion on a very small sample size, jedispyder. If you were to take the count out to infinity, your numbers would level out. It's just like those times when one guy pulls 2 A'Sharad Hett figs out of two boosters, and then one guy gets none out of a case. It's all in a small sample size.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 871 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Did the ;) not indicate I was joking? ^_^
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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I think I even things out some. I've pulled 2 out of about 8 IE boosters.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/31/2009 Posts: 1,701
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FlyingArrow wrote:I think I even things out some. I've pulled 2 out of about 8 IE boosters. 2 in 4 for me. As for boba/cad issue, unless you're playing an all unique squad i dont suggest using either. I've found out first hand that cad is in trouble when a senate commando bases him. ive tried to unload two full barrels (4 attacks) at that senate commando at point blank and hit TWO. i almost lost that game.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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My last 3 galaxy at war packs had rex 501st in them :(
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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To get back on subject, it does seem strange to me.
Boba Fett Cad Bane Revan
These three pieces are are the top of many want lists, and go for more on ebay than other pieces considered to be tier 1. But, we see mouse droids going for $10 a piece, as commons. If they were rare, instead of UC, they'd probaby go for 15-20. And If they were VR, we'd probably see them in the upper range of star wars minis.
Now thats just speculation. But lets look at Rieekan. He is in any top tier rebel squad you can imagine. He is one of the most useful pieces ever, having a larger effect than wedge. His cost is lower. Yet, he goes for 17.00 on EBAY.
I really think fanboyism drives up prices. I can't see any other reason why a piece like rieekan would go for so much less. He is rebel, and Fett/Bane are fringe... so that helps them a little more (as not all people necessarily play or collect rebel). But the same can be said of other pieces that have been seen in video games compared to pieces that make a faction competitive.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Yes, of course. The pieces are bought by a lot more than just the people playing the game. Check the back of any booster box. Play, collect, roleplay. WotC nailed their market. Arguably, collectors and roleplayers have more figures than the game players. The roleplayers are probably the only reason many of those lots of useless (game-wise) commons sell at all. Collectors will drive up the price of the more popular characters. Rieekan and Lobot would be far more valuable if game players were the sole market. As it is, game players can field a competitive squad in many factions using only a single chase piece since many of the more powerful pieces are only $1-4 on ebay.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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Thats a really good point.
I guess in a sense we're luck that some of the best commanders (Rieekan, Whorm, Dodona) weren't instead made out of more popular characters.
What is the current most expensive tier 1 piece? Captain Rex?
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