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Why are Skybuck squads so good... Options
creme_brule
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:44:45 AM
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...when General Skywalker's CE clearly says "Momentum to followers who end their move within 6 squares of this character?" Sure Mas can increase the "6 squares" part but that doesn't change the rest of the CE. Yobuck's advantage IS moving...so he wouldn't get that momentum until the very last attack.
kezzamachine
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:48:30 AM
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Personally, I think its Ani's tightfitting pants that make them so good. He is so hot right now!
creme_brule
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:10:03 AM
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kezzamachine wrote:
Personally, I think its Ani's tightfitting pants that make them so good. He is so hot right now!


speaking of hot, it's BURNING-HOT in southern california.
billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:13:15 AM
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creme_brule wrote:
...when General Skywalker's CE clearly says "Momentum to followers who end their move within 6 squares of this character?" Sure Mas can increase the "6 squares" part but that doesn't change the rest of the CE. Yobuck's advantage IS moving...so he wouldn't get that momentum until the very last attack.


Name another piece that can both eliminate all opposing fodder figures with ease, be swapped and towed, and can end that run by moving 16 squares and hitting a key target for 60 dmg. If played well (emphasize that part of the phrase please), yobuck is capable of beating virtually any other squad in the game. It actually takes a great deal of skill both in squad building, in preparation (knowing how to best attack the variety of squads you will see - ala the old days of B&B strategy), and in execution by carefully understanding the damage exchange of a given game.

In short, it's the versatility of the piece, and a solid set of numerous options available in his faction that make him a top tier contender. But that doesn't mean there aren't a great deal of poorly played yobuck squads either, that get swamped quickly out there either :)
creme_brule
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:17:35 AM
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wait--how can yobuck do 60? o.O now THAT's a new part to his capabilities i didnt know about...
billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:23:38 AM
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creme_brule wrote:
wait--how can yobuck do 60? o.O now THAT's a new part to his capabilities i didnt know about...


General Skywalker's CE affects a figure the moment you declare that your move has ended. This occurs prior to the last attack made via Gallop in the order of effects. Therefore, you move 16 with Masterspeed (usually after a tow of 12 from R2, or followed by a swap from Panaka to make the range much more than 16), and then take your gallop attack(s) with momentum, followed by the regular attack with momentum on any one of those targets. For example, you can often base thrawn and mas at the end of one run, kill mas, and do 60 to thrawn. It tends to not matter what the imperials have left to go in most cases, as they aren't likely to kill yoda, and then swap him away to finish thrawn the very next round (often can be pulled off in round 2 and 3 of those games.
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:52:59 AM
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2 types of squads win alot of games in T1 of this game
#1 Squads that can control Init or Activations
#2 Squads that kill a lot of activations quickly

Yobuck works cause he can kill the cheap activation filler that is in most squads (mice, uggies, brutes, gran raiders) all while still moving. How skybuck works is Yobuck is able to do 30 damage at the end of a long run or 60 damage after 10>16 squares. (depending on if you use master speed or not.).

So example situation Yobuck makes his move runs over some activations ends his move beside Princess Leia (50 HP), he ends his move hits her for 30 damage. Panaka swaps him out. Now next round Leia is at 20 and yobuck doesnt have to stop to kill her he can keep galloping around and hitting stuff.

Another example Gen Sky and Yobuck can setup 10 away from someone and in 1 round they can take out a 120HP character (60 from each).

Melee has always needed some kind of trick or gimmick to work vs shooters and skybuck works cause it has pretty crazy speed and high damage output AND very high HP.

As billiv15 pointed out it takes some practice to get the squad down. While you have really high power, what you dont have is a lot of tricks so you need to make sure your gallops count when you take them.
creme_brule
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:53:41 AM
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billiv15 wrote:
creme_brule wrote:
wait--how can yobuck do 60? o.O now THAT's a new part to his capabilities i didnt know about...


General Skywalker's CE affects a figure the moment you declare that your move has ended. This occurs prior to the last attack made via Gallop in the order of effects. Therefore, you move 16 with Masterspeed (usually after a tow of 12 from R2, or followed by a swap from Panaka to make the range much more than 16), and then take your gallop attack(s) with momentum, followed by the regular attack with momentum on any one of those targets. For example, you can often base thrawn and mas at the end of one run, kill mas, and do 60 to thrawn. It tends to not matter what the imperials have left to go in most cases, as they aren't likely to kill yoda, and then swap him away to finish thrawn the very next round (often can be pulled off in round 2 and 3 of those games.


took me a while to get it but now i do. wow.
Mandelmauler
Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 11:57:51 AM
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[edit: described better above]
mharmon
Posted: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 6:32:34 AM
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Don't forget that some of the best Skybuck squads also include Dash RS which can help bring down beefy beats.

IE: Tow yobuck 12 with R2. Run Yobuck 16 spaces killing off cheap fodder with gallop and ending with 60 on a big target. Let him soak up damage for one phase, swap in Dash RS, and let Dash use momentum/opportunist/GMA/Double/Twin to put another 120 damage down at an 14 attack! That's potentially 180 damage on a target from 28 spaces away using attacks that won't miss too much (+14 attack to +22 Attack).

If there are more activations and yobuck needs more movement to get to them all you can always let Yobuck run 26 spaces (he doesn't get his normal attack at the start or end of his movement) and that will only put 30 damage on the end target, but then you swap dash in and add 120 damage making 150 damage from potentially 38 spaces away.

The crazy thing is, after you do all of that, you likely have:
General Skywalker with full HP
Yobuck will likely still be good for one more gallop and if not he can at least sprint 16 spaces to put 60 down one more time)
Dash will likely be dead, but if not, that's still another 80 to 120 damage output he can potentially muster up.


When all else fails don't forget that Mas with Cunning and Momentum can be a beast himself to finish off commanders if needed Wink


That is the power behind Skybuck/Dash/R2/Panaka combo.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 6:58:45 AM
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Plus at the end of the game, if Panaka has full hit points, he can bodyguard General Skywalker and effectively give him 170 hit points, which is a lot to get through when he has good damage output and lightsaber defence.
creme_brule
Posted: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:30:40 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
Plus at the end of the game, if Panaka has full hit points, he can bodyguard General Skywalker and effectively give him 170 hit points, which is a lot to get through when he has good damage output and lightsaber defence.


but i have found that BD fails against direct dmg...which a lot of characters have/do nowadays.
Inquisitive Infiltrator
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:57:42 AM
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creme_brule wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
Plus at the end of the game, if Panaka has full hit points, he can bodyguard General Skywalker and effectively give him 170 hit points, which is a lot to get through when he has good damage output and lightsaber defence.


but i have found that BD fails against direct dmg...which a lot of characters have/do nowadays.

Then maybe you are running it wrong.
Its effective in keeping key pieces alive, and if you run it out there too early, the BG will fail you for sure.
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 9:04:54 AM
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Inquisitive Infiltrator wrote:
creme_brule wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
Plus at the end of the game, if Panaka has full hit points, he can bodyguard General Skywalker and effectively give him 170 hit points, which is a lot to get through when he has good damage output and lightsaber defence.


but i have found that BD fails against direct dmg...which a lot of characters have/do nowadays.

Then maybe you are running it wrong.
Its effective in keeping key pieces alive, and if you run it out there too early, the BG will fail you for sure.


No, he's saying that the BG special ability does not work against direct damage, and in particular, that it's often a detriment against DD based squad designs - particularly lighting, grenades, cestas that hit multiple targets.

I'm not sure his point was significantly relevant to the notation above of using panaka late game as a BG, but yours is even more irrelevant. He certainly isn't running it wrong, as this appears more that you are the one who doesn't know how the interaction works.

To clarify, Body gaurd can only be used to absorb damage from attacks. Damage from all other sources cannot be BGed.
Inquisitive Infiltrator
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 3:06:01 AM
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I read it wrong, and I apologize for the mix up. However, instead of being rude, it might be better if you simply explained yours or his point without 'irrelevant' attitudes. Thank you in advance.ThumpUp
greentime
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 8:17:27 AM
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If you add Ahsoka for Rolling Cleave (not the best build by far, but fun as all get out) it gets even crazier. Let's imagine the board being thus:

H
U
B E


Where H = Han, B = Bothan noble, U = ugnaught, and E= ERC

You move 16 with master speed to end one square to the right of Han. Now you gallop Han, then the ugnaught. Ugnaught dies, you get a free attack on Han, then move one square down. Now you get galloping attacks (with momentum) against the ERC and the Bothan noble, and you still have your regular attack, which you throw at Han so he dies.

Now a savvy opponent will realize this and try to minimize it, but with the modern meta and high-activation squads, it is impossible for any but the most intense and focused player to avoid giving you opportunities. A very fun squad.
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