|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
I'm sure this has been discussed at length and the GenCon results are a good demonstration of what really is Tier 1, but it's always an interesting discussion.
Clear Tier 1 squads before DotF is released include:
Rebel cannons (e.g. Smug Commandos)
Black & Blue (Thrawn plus a Vader)
Lancer squads
Skybuck
Would these also be considered Tier 1 or are they just below Tier 1?
Blue & Blue (Thrawn swapping Cad)
NR beats (Ganner + Mara + at least one more beat)
What did I forget? Are GOWK/Flobi squads considered tier 1? Senate Commandos? Thanks.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 1,195
|
B&B Swaps. Either Lord Vader or Cad
Princess Leia squads with massive activations
GGDAC Lancer Pawn
Yoda on Kybuck swap squads
Ganner + Mara +either Han GH or KKJBM
Those are the main ones for the Top 5 factions there are a few little differances in them from player to player i.e. greentime using Ferus and Bodyguards over General Skywalker. But the basic squad build was the same.
I do not consider GOWK to be T1 or Senate Commando's. I'd put both of them around T1.5 or even T2, again thats just me.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
|
personally I wouldn't put Lancer squads as tier 1. They are much more tier 1.5 or tier 2. They just do really well in some matchups. It is really more of a classic gimmick squad (similar to the double uggernaut squad from a couple years ago). Great when your opp isn't prepared for them, and not so hot otherwise.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 1,378
Location: Indianapolis
|
Well I came in 4th this year with a Ganner, Mara, Kyle, Dash squad, so I guess it's around tier 1.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 1,378
Location: Indianapolis
|
Well I came in 4th this year with a Ganner, Mara, Kyle, Dash squad, so I guess it's around tier 1.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 1,382
Location: Detroit, Mi
|
urbanjedi wrote:personally I wouldn't put Lancer squads as tier 1. They are much more tier 1.5 or tier 2. They just do really well in some matchups. It is really more of a classic gimmick squad (similar to the double uggernaut squad from a couple years ago). Great when your opp isn't prepared for them, and not so hot otherwise.
Ya I agree, Lancer teams do very well against certain teams but fare badly against many other teams. Fun though to play and Competitive.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
Interesting - I hadn't heard anyone say that Lancer teams weren't Tier 1. Didn't someone make Top 8 at Gencon with a Double Lancer squad? I just went to gamers to try to find the data file that had all the squads and the records but couldn't figure out where it was.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
|
Lancer is an odd bird in that it will either win by a mile or lose by a mile. The thing about it, though, is that a lot of the "win by a mile" situations are against otherwise competitive squads; that's why it works. I agree that it's hard to say that they're tier 1, since they can be pretty easily countered, but it's hard to argue against them being tier 1 as well, because of how incredibly good they can be in a skilled player's hands (See: Jason's top 8 Gencon finish this year).
I'd definitely consider NR to be tier 1. Like Wes said, he got 4th place with them this year, and they can really throw a wrench in other top squads, while not having the big weaknesses like Lancer has. Ganner, Mara, and Kyle or Han are consistently good.
Otherwise, I think you just about picked out the best of the best. I might drop "Skybuck" for just general Yobuck variants; while Skybuck is the most prevalent, other versions like Beefbuck and Plobuck are up there as well (not that all Yobuck squads are tier 1, but more than just Skybuck definitely are).
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
|
@ Flying Arrow
Yes a Lancer squad did make T8 and it was mine. I still do not think that Lancers are tier one. It is a gimmick squad that can beat some squads quite easily and auto lose to others. Just because it made Top 8 at Gencon doesn't mean tier 1. It means that I played it well and got favorable matchups throughout the day. In other words, I correctly guessed the meta and played the pants off the squad.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/20/2009
Posts: 145
|
NR is T1 for sure since they got a movement breaker in Ganner.
Kyle's Disruptive proves to be unvaluable in a CE-heavy meta.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
urbanjedi wrote:@ Flying Arrow
Yes a Lancer squad did make T8 and it was mine. I still do not think that Lancers are tier one. It is a gimmick squad that can beat some squads quite easily and auto lose to others. Just because it made Top 8 at Gencon doesn't mean tier 1. It means that I played it well and got favorable matchups throughout the day. In other words, I correctly guessed the meta and played the pants off the squad.
IMO, it is a teir 1 squad because it sort of has to be taken into account. It has weaknesses, sure, but if you don't have a plan, it can really mess with your game. If anything, it is on the bubble of 1.5, where I'm sure it will be post DOTF.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/28/2008
Posts: 1,378
Location: Indianapolis
|
I've just got back into the minis world recently and was wondering if the meta had changed with the characters that have been revealed so far. Last I heard was that every faction was getting something and that they were trying to make all factions playable. I've seen a few of the new characters and looks like to me that the above is true.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 3/15/2009
Posts: 909
Location: Michigan
|
Well right now from what stats have been released, Sith have definately gotten the best power boost out of any faction. I think we will see a whole lot more Revan/Bandon combos out there now.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 522
|
cicrush13 wrote:Well right now from what stats have been released, Sith have definately gotten the best power boost out of any faction. I think we will see a whole lot more Revan/Bandon combos out there now. Let's not forget about the Vong. After seeing what the Yammosk can do, I am tempted to start testing a Vong squad to possibly use for Regionals. That one piece solves a lot of problems those masochists have been having. But I digress. It will be interesting to see what the new meta will be once DotF comes into effect. Any takers? Sincerely, Jester007
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
Vong got a pretty potent boost as well. I think the major gamechangers for Mandos and OR haven't been revealed yet.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/2/2009
Posts: 230
Location: near Madison, WI
|
Jester007 wrote:Let's not forget about the Vong. After seeing what the Yammosk can do, I am tempted to start testing a Vong squad to possibly use for Regionals. That one piece solves a lot of problems those masochists have been having. But I digress. Biggest problem now for Vong (and has always been a problem) will be Kyle disruptive. But undisputable SA "booming voice" will help.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
urbanjedi wrote:@ Flying Arrow
Yes a Lancer squad did make T8 and it was mine. I still do not think that Lancers are tier one. It is a gimmick squad that can beat some squads quite easily and auto lose to others. Just because it made Top 8 at Gencon doesn't mean tier 1. It means that I played it well and got favorable matchups throughout the day. In other words, I correctly guessed the meta and played the pants off the squad.
What are its autolosses? Nom bombs, death shots, and a bunch of Kel Dors - but none of those are Tier 1. Disruptive and Djem so/riposte puts it at a disadvantage - but would it be called an autoloss? Or maybe I don't have the right definitions for Tier 1/Tier 1.5. I'd think that a Tier 1 squad is one that would have a chance to win a major competitive tournament - could hold its own against all other Tier 1/Tier 1.5 squads. Tier 1.5 would be a squad that can compete with most other top squads but at least one of its hate squads (autolosses) is also Tier 1/1.5. Do those definitions sound right?
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
To keep things on topic, I created another thread for the discussion of Post-DotF Tier 1: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8287
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
|
Either of the Vader's with Riposte (scourge or the MOTF one) which were popular builds going into Gencon, GMLS is an auto loss, Kyle is a really tough match and lancer can really only win on pts (2pt win) unless the Kyle player makes a ton of mistakes.
Yobuck can be tough (esp if they have played against Lancer more than a couple of times) because of the override advantage (up to quad).
Lancer is gimmicky and not tier 1 because of 2 things. 1 it doesn't really have any "great" matchups and 2 it can be very map dependant.
Actually Death Shot and Nom bombs aren't that bad depending on the builds. Beat a nom bomb squad in round 1 of the Champs.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
Ok, thanks.
So that leaves:
B&B (multiple versions)
Rebel cannons (Smuggler, Leia, Rieekan + other options)
Yobuck variants
NR (Ganner, Mara, a Kyle, etc.)
|
|
|
Guest |