RegisterDonateLogin

Twice the pride, double the fall.

Welcome Guest Active Topics | Members

dotf changes: not errata, just opinion Options
shatterpoint7
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:42:37 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/19/2009
Posts: 487
i was looking at a couple of minis and their abilities from dotf and was thinking that maybe a couple should be changed so that they have better gameplay or better resemblance to star wars canon. maybe there shouldn't be any changes at all, but id like to look at a couple and see if you guys agree.

jaina solo sotj- is good but i think a few people made more acurrate jaina's than in dotf. affinity for boba and no triple were the main differences.

http://www.bloomilk.com/CustomCharacter/Browse?id=277

ben skywalker- why 70hp? he's a 14-year old kid for most of lotf books!

sora bulq- im pretty sure you can't use 3 styles (soresu, djem, vaapad) to fight an enemy at once. you should have to choose one style before you start your turn.

mandalore the preserver- beskarg'am (whenever this character takes damage, he reduces the damage by 10 with a save of 11) should be less similiar than dark armor. 20 instead of 10, or no save?
Darth_Ewok_Fett
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:09:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/29/2010
Posts: 81
Sora is an MMA fighter that uses Tae Kwondo, Judo, and Boxing so yes he can use 3 styles.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:32:39 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
I think of hit points more as a plot device than a measure of life. High hit points means they're important, low hit points means they're a red-shirt. How else to explain the Dark Times bounty hunters having something like double the HP of their Rebel Storm counterparts? Just a matter of how important they are for that particular skirmish...
The Celestial Warrior
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:39:08 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/28/2009
Posts: 414
Eh...affinity with Boba. For gameplay purposes, that's a waste. No one would play Jaina in the Mandos if she had to be with Boba...there's no synergy for 100+ points. Not sure why you're arguing for double over Triple????

Ben Skywalker- he's a 14 year old kid that survives several engagements...you would prefer a 1 hit wonder of 30HP's??? You'd probably complain more over that.

Sora Bulq-Not in the exact same strike, no. In the combat, absolutely. Plus it accurately reflects his character.

Beskargam---Technically it's more similar to (or exactly like)Vonduun crab armor as neither is affected by lightsabers, but yeah I can see where you're coming from on this. There was such a big stink about Shock/Electro staff that I figure they'd try to avoid this. Problem is there is only sooooo much you can do with damage reducing abilities. 20 would have been simply, simply ridiculous. No save wout be just like DR without the lightsaber restriction...no no no. Honestly, I prefer it not being called Vonduun Crab Armor so I can accept this as it's flavor, unlike Shock/Electro staff
swinefeld
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:42:57 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
Mandalore:
Beskarg'am (as it reads) also works against lightsabers/LS throw. That's different than Dark Armor (or Damage Reduction for that matter).

Now I am curious about it's interaction with Bodyguard... guess the rules insert will spell all this out. Don't have the energy to read the design thread on Gamers again, lol.

edit: TCW ninja'd me
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 10:21:27 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
The Celestial Warrior wrote:
Eh...affinity with Boba. For gameplay purposes, that's a waste. No one would play Jaina in the Mandos if she had to be with Boba...there's no synergy for 100+ points. Not sure why you're arguing for double over Triple????


As was the point when I made that custom he is linking to. I'm sorry, but Jaina being trained by Boba is the worst kind of Boba fanwank. I like and accept the DOTF piece, as I don't let my dislike of the source ruin my views.
qvos
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 10:56:46 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 1,382
Location: Detroit, Mi
The Guys who worked on DOTF worked hard at playtesting this set. It's easy for us to pick it apart, but most of us haven't seen , let alone played any of these characters.
Let's give it time.
By the Way, I tried to get into the Legacy series. I even read the whole series, I though the Jaina being trained by Boba was a bunch of crap anyway.... so if there were a Boba to be used with Jaina he'd have to be about 90 Years old...... what does that translate to in the minis world... Boba Old Man Merc: 20 hp cost 10
attack +1
Def 2
HP 10
SA: Half his foot in the grave: If this character makes an attack, he must make a save of 16. on a failed save .... death.
Just Kidden, but I'm not gonna be critical until i've had a chance to play it.










Sithborg
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 11:08:23 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
Yup, not going to change, nor should they. Keep in mind, this is the designer's interpretations, which will vary from person to person.
shatterpoint7
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 12:01:33 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/19/2009
Posts: 487
@The Celestial Warrior-i think ben should be around 50-60 hp but not 70 or 30. he took a lot more than hits than most 14-year old's but not more than a fully trained jedi consular (60 hp) should take.
and sora bulq- i dont think you can combine style's when fighting one enemy. you use one style or the other.

@qvos- i think destiny of the force is perhaps the best set ever for minis, and the time everyone took to make it happen is incredible. im just talking about options that people may want to use if they dont think a mini is represented well enough (in non tourney play). id say 50/60 minis are pretty much perfect, a greater % then wizards ever came close to. dotf is definitly a step in the right direction.ThumpUp
billiv15
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 12:11:39 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
shatterpoint7 wrote:
@The Celestial Warrior-i think ben should be around 50-60 hp but not 70 or 30. he took a lot more than hits than most 14-year old's but not more than a fully trained jedi consular (60 hp) should take.
HPs is an abstraction in the game that represents a number of things, not just how many hits a character can take. At one point, Rob even talked about HPs being intended to convey a jedi using a Lightsaber to avoid being killed, and that deflect and block were actually given out when a character was considered exceptional at that particular skill. There are also game play issues at stake as well, where 70 means a lot more than 60. Sometimes a character gets the extra 10 to simply avoid them being easily killed by something else in the game.

shatterpoint7 wrote:
and sora bulq- i dont think you can combine style's when fighting one enemy. you use one style or the other.
That's false, they most certainly can. The deal is, most characters were not considered highly trained in more than one. Most fighters focused on one, even if they learned the others as well. Sora is one of the exceptions to that. Cin Drallag would be another one. Sora actually was a master of multiple styles and used them all at the same time. The comparison to an MMA fighter is pretty darn spot on. Good fighters will switch from one style to another at a moment's notice if they decide the advantage can be gained. They can also combine styles and use that knowledge to "create" a way of fighting that is entirely their own, until they train someone else that is. And in combining, they are in fact using multiple styles at one moment. This is true in SWs Canon and in real life. Don't believe me, the Wiki it :). That's how Sora is designed.

shatterpoint7 wrote:
@qvos- i think destiny of the force is perhaps the best set ever for minis, and the time everyone took to make it happen is incredible. im just talking about options that people may want to use if they dont think a mini is represented well enough
Absolutely, please continue to do so. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Your posts have been generally helpful, so keep it up. People are just giving you other sides to the issues, don't get upset that people don't agree with you, just as the designers are not upset with your comments.
Darth_Ewok_Fett
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 1:04:08 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/29/2010
Posts: 81
Spot on!!! From Bill......Spot F'en on!!! I now can add to my fav SW minis moment!!!
LOL
jedispyder
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 3:32:36 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/27/2008
Posts: 871
Location: Cincinnati, OH
billiv15 wrote:
shatterpoint7 wrote:
and sora bulq- i dont think you can combine style's when fighting one enemy. you use one style or the other.
That's false, they most certainly can. The deal is, most characters were not considered highly trained in more than one. Most fighters focused on one, even if they learned the others as well. Sora is one of the exceptions to that. Cin Drallag would be another one. Sora actually was a master of multiple styles and used them all at the same time. The comparison to an MMA fighter is pretty darn spot on. Good fighters will switch from one style to another at a moment's notice if they decide the advantage can be gained. They can also combine styles and use that knowledge to "create" a way of fighting that is entirely their own, until they train someone else that is. And in combining, they are in fact using multiple styles at one moment. This is true in SWs Canon and in real life. Don't believe me, the Wiki it :). That's how Sora is designed.

Yep, IMO the Sora here is a perfect of how he was as a character canonly. According to Wookieepedia:
"He was exceptionally skilled with a lightsaber, developing talents that put him among the most skilled in Jedi history and caused him to be considered among the very few on the level of Mace Windu. Bulq developed total mastery over all known lightsaber forms, even the experimental and obscure."
So how do we describe him here? Give him multiple forms of lightsaber forms. This is the type of design that made us love what Peter Lee did with Dark Times, designing minis spot on with canon in mind.
Jester007
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 5:50:55 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 522
shatterpoint7 wrote:
ben skywalker- why 70hp? he's a 14-year old kid for most of lotf books!


Because he survived torture from not one, but TWO Sith......

Sincerely,
Jester007
Lord_Ball
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 7:09:54 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,029
I only have an issue with 2 characters really

Bastila - Advanced Battle Meditation - To me it should grant a bonus to Attack instead of Damage as all the damage in the world won't make the allies more effective if they can't hit the broadside of a barn. The other part of it is great at making the enemy less effective though.

Shimrra - Personally I didn't find him as tactically minded as he's portraited in DOTF
swrogue57
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:08:05 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 138
Location: Dumfries, VA
Jester007 wrote:
shatterpoint7 wrote:
ben skywalker- why 70hp? he's a 14-year old kid for most of lotf books!


Because he survived torture from not one, but TWO Sith......

Sincerely,
Jester007


I agree Ian. Ben has even gotten better in the Fate of the Jedi Series. I think 70 is fare though.

Roy (drkjedi35 on swmgamers.com)
jak
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:51:52 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,682
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
Blink until you play them, an opinion you should speak notHuh
Mandelmauler
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:17:19 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/2/2009
Posts: 230
Location: near Madison, WI
Lord_Ball wrote:
Bastila - Advanced Battle Meditation - To me it should grant a bonus to Attack instead of Damage as all the damage in the world won't make the allies more effective if they can't hit the broadside of a barn. The other part of it is great at making the enemy less effective though.


You have seen Atris who was previewed weeks ago? Force Meditation?
Cordova
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:49:59 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/2/2009
Posts: 177
I have only 3 gripes with DotF, and they are both minor and borderline ridiculous.

1) Jaina practically replaces Shado Vao...not totally, but almost, and I have an unhealthy attachment to the little Rutian...

2) There's not a non-unique Jedi Weaponmaster/Battlemaster for the NR. Altho the JediDemo is cool.

3) Sora Bulq is perhaps my fave mini stat wise but in my least fave faction...now I have to think of new squads etc...(Although, upon reflection, I feel that may have been half the point of DotF)

So, not really issues at all :D

Great work guys!
billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:51:36 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
Cordova wrote:
I have only 3 gripes with DotF, and they are both minor and borderline ridiculous.

1) Jaina practically replaces Shado Vao...not totally, but almost, and I have an unhealthy attachment to the little Rutian...

2) There's not a non-unique Jedi Weaponmaster/Battlemaster for the NR. Altho the JediDemo is cool.

3) Sora Bulq is perhaps my fave mini stat wise but in my least fave faction...now I have to think of new squads etc...(Although, upon reflection, I feel that may have been half the point of DotF)

So, not really issues at all :D

Great work guys!


Haha, awesome comments. I think we accomplished our goals :)
Lord_Ball
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:59:04 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,029
Mandelmauler wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
Bastila - Advanced Battle Meditation - To me it should grant a bonus to Attack instead of Damage as all the damage in the world won't make the allies more effective if they can't hit the broadside of a barn. The other part of it is great at making the enemy less effective though.


You have seen Atris who was previewed weeks ago? Force Meditation?


What does that have to do with Bastilla's Advanced Battle Meditation only accurately* representing 50% of the Ability?

*While accuracy in this case is a matter of opinion it stands that if you can't hit the enemy no amount of bonus damage will make an ally more effective in combat.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Bloo Milk Theme Created by shinja
Powered by Yet Another Forum.net.
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.