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Just sort of a fun idea I had. I'm just going through DOTF and ranking the figs by faction, with a brief review. I'm going to eventually get through all of them, but I will start with OR.
6. Old Republic Tech Specialist: It is an interesting option. Most of the time, you will want a Juggernaught War Droid for door control, since Door Gimmick isn't exactly great. In the end, he falls to a meta call, as he is the perfect anti Droid piece. Very few pieces can do the same damage to Droids at the point range without depending on init as him. A nice option, if not gamechanging.
5. Tactical Officer: Non-unique init control is fun. Tactician +4 and Recon to your other non-uniques is pretty potent. Sadly, not the best init control for the OR now, it is a piece to keep an eye on. As OR gets more CE's, those 4 pt OR Guards are going to become something to think about.
4. Jedi Seer: The Jedi Seer sadly has to struggle against the other OR Jedi in the point range. Luckily, he is different enought to stand out and seperate himself from the Battlemaster and Watchmen. Better stats than the Watchman, and Evade gives him the edge over the Battlemaster. His speed is key. Surprise Move is key to setting up a Double, or Triple. And of course, he has his anti Gallop/Strafe abilities, making him an important meta call for the OR.
3. Old Republic Senator: Yay, Diplomats that can do stuff. The watered down Leia's CE is very potent, since the OR has a great mix of Melee and Shooters. Between him and Bastilla, you can set up quite a damaging barrage of attacks.
2. The Revanchist: A piece that the OR definately needed. A great mix of beatstick and commander, pre-Revan gives OR a very nice movement breaker, one that works especially well with the other key OR CE, The Exile. And he has the best Tactician in the game, so you can be assured you will be getting your Ambushes off. While not a super beatstick, he is mobile with Ambush, and decent defense. Not to mention, Force Push 4 finally no longer a Rebel exclusive. A good mixed attacker with that option.
1. Bastilla Shan, Jedi Master: Advanced Battle Meditation is going to be a game changer. Global Disruptive is going to hurt a lot of factions. So many squads depend on CE's these days (I'm looking at you, TBSV), that it will be extremely fun to see some of them try to keep up without them for a round or two. And while they are dealing with that, you will be attacking with more damage per hit. Everyone benefits from that, since the biggest issue is that most of the OR heavy hitters don't have much damage boosts for 40ish pieces. You can't maintain it for too long, but the 1-2 rounds can change the course of the game, and make it that much likelier for an OR win.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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Great thread!
I mostly agree with your analysis, but I would swap the OR Senator and the Jedi Seer. True, the Seer has to struggle against other pieces like the Battlemaster and Watchmen, but I think he beats both of them. Evade has a lot of synergy in the faction between Nomi and Exile+TBSV, and Surprise Move is great for setting up Jedi Reflexes.
The Senator on the other hand just doesn't have any great pieces to benefit from him. The shooters are too fragile, so even though they pack a punch (and an even bigger punch with the Senator), they die too quickly to really be effective. You could use him with some melee pieces, but then you run into problems with Disruptive where if you're playing against it you've pretty much wasted the points on him.
Otherwise I think your analysis is spot on. Looking forward to the rest of the set.
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I agree with Echo on this one. Evade is extremely useful, especially for the OR who needs it. Plus, since it puts more pressure on shooters/melee'ers to get adjacent to him, the Reflexes and Quick Reactions are great, giving him an immediate attack at +16 (without any commander effects) against that adjacent enemy. I believe he'll have his place with the rest of the OR jedi :) I totally agree with your anaylsis on Bastila (i thought her ABM costed 1 FP O.O ). She'll be extremely useful for the OR. I also totally agree with your anaylsis on the Revanchist. 42 points for a tactician, push, CE, duelist, and high HP/defensive stats make him a great figure. I don't really get the OR TS though. I understand your opinion on him (he is totally a GG DAC hater) bbut otherwise i wouldn't spend 13 points on him. Useful though for that annoying player who always plays the 200 mouse droid + gha nackt + GG DAC squad every single time :P
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I like the commentary - looking forward to the other factions.
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It was a tough call, but the Senator edged out a bit because the Seer has fairly rough competition for the role in that point range, whereas the Senator is pretty new for the OR. The Seer is a good piece, no doubt.
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Okay, got a little distracted.
Sith 6. Sith Inquisitor: A very interesting piece. Cheap auto damage isn't anything to gripe about. Built in Renewal is nice, so you don't have to rely on Holo Sid, though he tends to go in any way for the rest of the squad. Master of Pain is where he becomes a threat. It can be potentially gamechanging, but it is pretty easy to avoid, with Force Immunity, fodder to block the targetting, and FPs to reroll. And he has a huge target on him, and he can go down easy. A nice piece, but it doesn't radically boost or change the faction.
5. Sith Acolyte: A fun swapper. The Sith have to interest options to swap her in, either with Sidious or Revan, SL. Repulse can be a very nasty suprise early on, if you can activate some key pieces. Like Mara, she isn't so much a shooter as she is a Melee fig with the option to shoot. She goes from okay to pretty good against adjacent figs. And with her cost so low, a good chance to pull off Bravado, for a +10 Atk for 30 Dam. Not to terrible, especially when you figure in Twin froma Czerka. A fun addition to the faction.
4. Dark Jedi Assassin: I've actually sort of moved her up on the list. Yes, she looks extremely fragile, I understand. But, she has some great defenses. Cloaked and Deflect help protect from shooters. She falls to Melee, but Riposte makes it that she at least some some damage before she goes. Which brings up a very cool thing I like about the piece. Non-melee Riposte is really cool. Won't really save her, since most Melee figs with Djem So or Riposte will still be able to kill her, but I like it. But the main thing that has been keeping her as a good option is that she is like a non-unique Atton Rand. Sure, she doesn't have the sheer damage output, due to not having Cunning or the ability to use Twin, but that's okay. She does better than Atton in a lot of areas. She is pretty protected at range, which I covered, and she is very able to set up her Double Attack with Surprise Move. That is where she gets a bit better than Atton in a few ways. Definately one of the better shooter options in the Sith faction now.
3. Darth Revan, Sith Lord: Yay, a usable Revan. Those of you who spent the $50+ on him can now rejoice. He is a very cabable beatstick, with a great range for hit and runs, with MOTF 2, Master Speed, Lightsaber Assault, and his twist on the swap mechanic. Switching himself after he goes really encourages him to be up in the front lines, unlike other swappers. In the Sith faction, this usually means setting up a secondary beat to follow up on Revan softening the target. A very capable beatstick/commander is something the Sith have been needing beyond just Malak. A very welcome addition to the faction.
2. Darth Bandon: Bandon adds to what the Sith beatsticks should be about, heavy damage. Being allies opens it makes a lot of very interesting choices. He definately makes you go back an relook at some of the old Sith pieces. Now Krayt has some decent damage output to go with his healthy HP. Talon hits and runs for 60. Lumiya is quite potent now with her boosted damage output. It is a fun exercise. While some of the better pieces still remain at the top, the extra damage is pretty key to the Sith keeping up with all the other factions. Bandon himself isn't much to talk about. Very JWM-esque, if lacking their defensive options. Still, that CE is a powerful one for the Sith, expect to see him a lot.
1. Exar Kun, Dark Force Spirit: Okay, somewhat biased towards this piece, since I was experimenting with Sith Sorcery when Freedon Nadd came out. Dark Aura is absolutely devastating with Sith Sorcery, which is the Sith's version of tempo control, or as I like to call it, activation control. You have no idea just how brutal Sith Sorcery is till you see it take out nearly half your squad. Absolutely brutal. Of course, there is still the Dark Spirit part of this piece. While there are not a whole lot of figures who can benefit from both Renewal and Rage available to the Sith, Sith Rage alone is pretty potent on quite a few figs. Lumiya becomes a veritable Sith Lord with Exar, and Jarael is pretty nasty (especially with Dark Aura in effect), among others. And of course, like a lot of things in the set, his best boosts aren't CE's, and thus can't be stolen by the Yammosk. That fig alone makes me hesitant in bringing Bandon in some builds. His CE and his stealing of Force won't be a major issue in most cases, but it is a nice option to have to support you in a few instances. Still, Exar is a great upgrade piece to many figures available to the Sith, and even better squad support.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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I'd put Revan at #1 simply because it gives me a reason to use one of the most expensive minis of them all!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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I think the ratings depend on how you play. For example, the Sith Inquisitor piece is a very different piece in "regular" play vs gambit play. Although expensive, the combo of the Sith Inquisitor and Exar Kun (the original, solid version) can devastate a squad in a single phase.
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gwek never said it was a likely situation, just that it was a powerful enough combo to greatly hinder an opponents squad. something you didn't deny, but instead went on to explain as being near impossible to ever do..
I also got the feeling it might have been a separate thought from his comment about the SI being a different type of piece based off game type and play style.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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It is one combo that slightly changes it. Even then, it is only slightly better than Dominate. Still LOS requirement, still the same save 11. The only difference is that he damages a fig and there is a chance that it might be permanent, the same chance as Internal Strife or Betrayal. Of course, my ratings are my opinion. But I don't see any playstyle or enviroment that would make me move him up in the ranks. You mileage may vary.
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Please don't ruin this thread with pointless arguments. I actually enjoy reading Sith's insights on the v-sets.
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swmtrader wrote:Please don't ruin this thread with pointless arguments. I actually enjoy reading Sith's insights on the v-sets. I'm not sure the argument was against what Sithborg was saying. I actually like the varying viewpoints on how different peolpe use different pieces. I could be wrong but one of the things Ive noticed in playing is that the new DOTF has shrunk the chasm between Great players and the Mediocre. In other words, It has made the Marginal player better, And the Great player will have to really up their game to improve. In the end , the Cream will rise to the top as the Best players will have to Improve their game greatly. I like the new Bastilla piece. Some of the new players however claim that it is undercosted . So, without making a hate squad, or a Riekann squad, I showed them that A regular team could beat them, One with a great shooter, one that was not overbalanced with commander affects, and even a movement breaker piece. I love this new set guys. Finally one that balances out the factions!
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gwek wrote:I think the ratings depend on how you play. For example, the Sith Inquisitor piece is a very different piece in "regular" play vs gambit play. Although expensive, the combo of the Sith Inquisitor and Exar Kun (the original, solid version) can devastate a squad in a single phase. I don't know about 'very' different, but he is stronger in 'regular' play that goes until one squad is defeated instead of counting points. In competitive play, if you turn a piece that is near-dead, the opponent can kill the piece and gain points for it. In 'regular' play, they can kill it, but they've lost a piece and wasted an activation killing one of their own pieces and get no benefit for it.
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Onto the Republic, which will be nice and quick.
3. Anakin Skywalker and Padme Amidala on Reek: Okay, a really, really long name. At first glance, it isn't that impressive. In order to use this guy, you have to give up one of the Republic's best commanders in General Skywalker, and give up the option of one the decent Amidala options. That kind of keeps this guy from being top teir. Battering Charge is pretty brutal, though, so it is a good thing you can't use General Skywalker. If you are facing someone with Double or Triple, Battering Charge makes it difficult to use those abilities. It gives them a head start in the damage race. Add in that is is every adjacent on a Huge fig, it also becomes a decent way to force the opponent to spread out, either in fear of multiple Battering Charge attacks, or because you hit him with multiple Battering Charge attacks. I do like the +10 Atk, because it is the magic number for Quizod, a great cheap way to boost their attack. Blaster rounds out their offensive options, making them pretty balanced between melee and shooter. And Defense is always welcome protection for Jedi. Not going to be burning up the top tables like Yobuck, but they are definately fun to use.
2. Ki-Adi Mundi, Jedi Master: He fills a fairly interesting role. He fills the role of an opportunist attacker/swapper better than Plo Koon. 6 pts cheaper is definately good. While it does buy Plo some better stats, Ki-Adi's Force Powers are better for a more generic attack roll. Deflect is much needed shooter protection. Anticipation is always fun for init control. And in the end, his CE is far, far better for the roll of swap attacker than Plo Koon. It got a very significant upgrade from the CS version, upgrading to Allies within 6. This is key, because Ki-Adi now becomes a psuedo Revan, SL. Swapping him in at the end of a round to get his Opportunist off is of course good, but if you win init, you can attack with Ki-Adi, and then swap him out with his CE. Old skool B&B at it's finest. Of course, I do love the +10 Atk on Republic Jedi. A very good addition to the Republic, and definately better in a lot of ways than Plo Koon, who is still a good mini as well.
1. Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist: My thoughts on this piece is quite simple: 4 pt Order 66 Troopers. I love this guy, as Queen Amidala makes it worthwhile. And honestly, they are cheap enough at 3 that it is almost, almost worth it to take Palpatine. Not quite worth it, but it almost is, which is a lot considering how bad Palpatine is. And swarming in the Republic isn't too bad, because they have 2 death shot CEs. If you had to take one, take Plo Koon, as they will be best up close to him. And I do love Rookiee. Enhances the use of commanders on the front lines. Which perfectly captures the role of Jedi in the Clone Wars. They are a pretty nasty cheap figure, definately great options for the Republic now that they have a cheap Clone with decent stats (once boosted by Rookiee).
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Sep time...
5. Battle Droid Lieutenant: I will admit, the first time I saw this fig, I was taken back a bit. At first glance, it looked like it was a Lancer booster. In a way it is, but it isn't nearly as powerful as one thinks. No matter how many Mice you pack in, it is nearly impossible for the traditional deep strike Lancer to make use of this figure. So, now you have another damage booster for Droids, even if it is relegated to adjacent enemies. Not very exciting, I know, but the Seps do have some decent options. The Lancer, used as more of a support role, can make use of it, even if it isn't as devastating as deep strike. Magnaguards are kind of fun. Of course, I really do love the Jedi Hunter Droids. Pretty nasty. In the end, I fear the LT will be relagated to Immediate Droid Reserves most of the time.
4. Poggle the Lesser: Not a game changer, though he does add some interesting options. 2 pt Drones are pretty nice, though I really do love 4 pt Muun Guards. Very cheap and nasty. Rapport on such a cheap figure makes him an easy include if you are using a decent amount of other figures. His CE's are a bit counter intuitive, sadly. Since Self Destruct only goes off if you die, and the other one prevents Geonosians from dieing, a Geo Bomb squad can be potentially frustrating.
3. OOM-9: I do like this guy. In the age of Greivious, DAC, finding an alternative to him can be pretty tough. Yes, him and Whorm aren't as effective as DAC, with less of a stat boost and more reliant on Mice, it is also 23 points cheaper. That is a lot of extra room for some additional offense. He is also ideal when you are fielding Droids that already have Twin, like the Commando Droids or Jedi Hunter Droid. Sadly, most players are leaving him in the shadow of DAC, but I foresee him getting to be more of a mainstay as more Sep droids are added to the faction.
2. Sora Bulq: A living Sep is always a nice change of pace for the Seps. He is a better secondary beat to go with Dooku than Asajj. He's cheaper, with decent defenses at range thanks to Soresu. Doesn't get the Vigo combos, but he does work with a commander you are likely to be using already, Whorm. Twin is what makes him deadly. Twin Djem So is nasty, as is Twin Throw. And of course, Rage gives him some major offensive power. It is always nice to get a little bit of variety for Seps, beyond Grievious and Droids, and Sora goes nicely with all the other Whorm options available.
1. Series II Destroyer Droid: This is the Destroyer Droid that makes Jedi run in fear. The stats may cause some to balk a bit, but he gets so much from Advanced Shields. Rarely will you take all the damage from a hit, but most of the time you will still get to take 20 off a hit. That is pretty huge, and makes him last a lot longer than his feeble stats imply. And of course, being a Sep droid, means he will be getting boosted to some very nice Atk values at the very least. Twin will make him get a ton of shots off. Still has a few weaknesses, but very, very few figures can easily get through its shields, making it a very tough nut to crack, all the while blasting away at the opponent.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
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I'm liking the 4 point Muun guards as well.
Series II DD might be the best improvement on an old fig in the set (well, maybe bastila)
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Sithborg wrote: 4. Poggle the Lesser: Not a game changer, though he does add some interesting options. 2 pt Drones are pretty nice, though I really do love 4 pt Muun Guards. Very cheap and nasty. Rapport on such a cheap figure makes him an easy include if you are using a decent amount of other figures. His CE's are a bit counter intuitive, sadly. Since Self Destruct only goes off if you die, and the other one prevents Geonosians from dieing, a Geo Bomb squad can be potentially frustrating.
The counter-intuitive CE is why I love him. It's a Win-Win situation even though you'd rather see them blow. I'm sure this is also why his cost can be as low as it is...
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Sithborg wrote:Sep time...
2. Sora Bulq: A living Sep is always a nice change of pace for the Seps. He is a better secondary beat to go with Dooku than Asajj. He's cheaper, with decent defenses at range thanks to Soresu. Doesn't get the Vigo combos, but he does work with a commander you are likely to be using already, Whorm. Twin is what makes him deadly. Twin Djem So is nasty, as is Twin Throw. And of course, Rage gives him some major offensive power. It is always nice to get a little bit of variety for Seps, beyond Grievious and Droids, and Sora goes nicely with all the other Whorm options available. . How does Whorm give him twin ??? is Sora a droid ?
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Whorm's CE says Droids are subject to it, but it's still a regular commander effect otherwise, meaning living followers are subject to it, too.
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Demosthenes wrote:Whorm's CE says Droids are subject to it, but it's still a regular commander effect otherwise, meaning living followers are subject to it, too. cool thanks for the heads up
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