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Should a Darth Vader ever be made for the Sith Faction? Options
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 12:24:18 AM
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Here you go, post away. In my opinion, no way in hell. Vader exists as an Imperial exclusively, and Imperial is the Sith faction during his time as Darth Vader. The Sith faction in game, should be reserved to the old sith and the Legacy Sith (only the latter because WotC put them there - not because they really fit it). Vader should always be Imperial Faction. Darth Sideous and Darth Maul make at least marginal sense having Sith representation even if it still wasn't totally correct. The Separatists did not exist during Episode 1. Darth Sid SL, can't really explain that one, but it is what it is :). Vader is easy, the only possible Sith Vaders were made by WotC (Sith Apprentice and Anakin SA) and they were made as Imperial pieces. If, and only if the design team decides to make a 3rd Anakin from this specific period (15 minutes in movie time, perhaps at most 3 days in real time?) then the argument could be made. But from the very beginning of Darth Vader until his end, there is no place for him other than Imperial.
Demosthenes
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 12:32:36 AM
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I say no.
Chargers
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 12:37:23 AM
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He is Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith right?
Having a Vader in the Sith faction would be cool because he is Sith by training, power, intentions, evil personified, etc.

But it would be wrong.

As you noted:
billiv15 wrote:
... 15 minutes in movie time, perhaps at most 3 days in real time? ...


The Imperial faction doesn't quite exist when he is "knighted" as Darth Vader (so should there be a Separatist Vader? I would say no to that.), but that doesn't justify making him Sith. And I don't want to see a Vader representing him as a newbie in the suit and adjusting to life with fake legs and arm, breathing apparatus, etc. Although he is in the suit, he isn't yet the legend.
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 12:46:25 AM
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Chargers wrote:

The Imperial faction doesn't quite exist when he is "knighted" as Darth Vader (so should there be a Separatist Vader? I would say no to that.)


I agree, he is a Sith, which has nothing to do with faction :) Kriea is also a Sith, yet she was made as a Fringe piece. Just because you are a Sith, doesn't mean you automatically should be in the "Sith Faction" in our game. The two are similar things, but not exactly the same. The Imperial faction is a "Sith Faction" and Vader belongs exclusively to it.

As for the Sep Vader, I agree, totally wrong - perhaps more so than a Sith Vader even. Even in his 15 minutes, he still believes he is serving the Republic/Empire and goes to Mustafar to end the Sep leader and the war in favor of the Republic/Empire.

The only issue I see, is that some people think this minor time frame (of which we have 2 Vaders already), justifies a Sith Vader. Vader was not acting in the name of the Sith, he was acting in the name of the Republic which he had agreed should be reorganized into an Empire. Hence, even this 15 minutes is him helping set up the Empire.

As for other figures of the time, Vader's Apprentice could be argued for a Sith mini, but I'd still put him in the Imperial faction. At least in this case, you had a figure working against the Imperials to a small degree, and Vader's involvement was only as Master - Vader still functioned within the Empire, using his new apprentice to work outside of it - which is categorically different than what Sideous was doing.

Just because Vader was a "Sith Lord" does not mean he belongs in the "Sith Faction". :)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:14:34 AM
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What is the Sith faction supposed to represent? If it were just the old Sith vs the Old Republic I'd agree that Vader doesn't belong. But the Sith Darth Caedus, Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, etc kind of throws that out the window. If the design team decides to make a Sith Vader, Kreia, Vader's Apprentice, etc., I think the precedent is already there.

In terms of timing, Darth Sidious, Sith Master looks to me like Sidious during the duel with Yoda. His face looks like it's already been burned from the duel with Mace. If we have a Sith Sidious from that time frame, I don't see how you could argue against a Sith Vader from the same time frame.

I don't really care either way if we get one, but I don't see any argument against a Sith Vader that doesn't also attack multiple WotC "sacred cows."
The Celestial Warrior
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:24:09 AM
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All the Sith in the Sith Faction embody or follow the particular Sith Philosophy of their time.

Vader never really did.

Kreia was an outcast.

So I'd say no. Honestly, if the designers make one and it brings something fun and interesting to the Sith Faction without detracting(why you'll likely never see a Rebel Vader), you won't hear me complain. Same could be said for Dooku.
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:29:28 AM
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Caedus is the one that really throws things off for me, not Sidious/Maul. The Banites work just fine, because for 2000 years, they worked in the shadows, among themselves and the "fringe" elements. Sidious and Maul were really the last of these. So really, between Maul and the One Sith, there aren't really any new Sith Faction pieces. The rest are all worked heavily with a certain faction. I can see why Rob put Caedus were he did, because he was an odd situation. You don't want him working with the rest of the NR, but he didn't really fit in the Sith FACTION. Lumiya's time with the One Sith sort of jusified her placement (still want an Imp version though). Vader and Dooku are intrinsicly tied to their respective factions. They never operated in secret on their lonesome like Sidious and Maul did.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on faces. I don't remember Han's face ever being either severly burnt or whacked with a board while he was on the Death Star. ;)

While the faction has many Sith Lords, Sith Lord =/= Sith Faction.
countrydude82487
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:54:28 AM
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here is my take on it. Wotc Changed who the SIth were as a Faction by puting in Darth Maul and Darth Sidious. Vader was Primarily part of the Imperial Faction, but he is still a Sith lord and during the Imperial Era There were only 2 SIth. I think their could be 1 vader in the sith faction. I dont think thei9r should be alot because he was kind of the face of the Empire, but to me he is still a sith. thats just my opinion though.
countrydude82487
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:06:32 AM
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here is my take on it. Wotc Changed who the SIth were as a Faction by puting in Darth Maul and Darth Sidious. Vader was Primarily part of the Imperial Faction, but he is still a Sith lord and during the Imperial Era There were only 2 SIth. I think their could be 1 vader in the sith faction. I dont think thei9r should be alot because he was kind of the face of the Empire, but to me he is still a sith. thats just my opinion though.
Rikalonius
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:55:01 AM
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I say no, and I think there are already enough Darth Vader figures. Darth Vader was an integral part of the Empire. I think the Sith faction should only exist for those Dark Lords who existed during a time when the enemy of the galaxy was identified as Sith. Palpatine I can agree with only because he alone revitalized the Sith doctrines for a new generation, even though he chose to call his Empire the Galactic Empire and not the Sith Empire, because he overthrew the Republic politically and not militarily as had been attempted in the past.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 3:03:26 AM
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I am firmly in the NO camp as I cannot see a purpose for Vader to be in the Sith Faction outside of "Fantasy teams". Vaders allegiance is firmly to that of the Empire, up until he turns on the Emperor to save Luke (Not a very Sith like thing to do mind you) he would do anything to preserve his precious Empire (NOT Sith teachings). IF a Sith faction Vader be made you might as well make a Vong Hett.

Maul and Sidious do belong in the Sith Faction (though not the Sidious WOTC made for it), as they Had no Allegiance to either the Republic or the Seperatists - their Allegiance was to themselves in their attempt to divide and conquer the galaxy.

So after all that to me it boils down to ALLEGIANCES of which Vader really had none towards the Sith.
juice man
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:02:15 AM
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Hey! Maybe after the Sith Vader we can get a Rebel Vader too.Scared
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:16:45 AM
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Sithborg wrote:

While the faction has many Sith Lords, Sith Lord =/= Sith Faction.


I agree with countrydude. The Sith Faction is what WotC defined it to be, and they decided to allow Sith from all eras.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:22:46 AM
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juice man wrote:
Hey! Maybe after the Sith Vader we can get a Rebel Vader too.Scared


I think we need a Rebel more than a Sith Vader. Although he should be named Anakin, not Vader. The whole six-movie series is about the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, but we have no mini to represent his redemption other than the Force Spirit. The mini should be a piece that kills one powerful enemy piece (representing killing Palpatine) and then dies itself, with a strong possibility of being turned over to the enemy via Internal Strife or something like it.
Jedicartographer
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:42:33 AM
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Hell No, God No, F*** No, PLease No, No,No, No, No,

Sith needs alot of But does NOT need Vader.

Vader is an Imperial that's it.

Demosthenes
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:45:21 AM
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Jedicartographer wrote:
Hell No, God No, F*** No, PLease No, No,No, No, No,

Sith needs alot of But does NOT need Vader.

Vader is an Imperial that's it.



What he said. ThumbsUp
CerousMutor
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:52:25 AM
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Jedicartographer wrote:
Hell No, God No, F*** No, PLease No, No,No, No, No,

Sith needs alot of But does NOT need Vader.

Vader is an Imperial that's it.



Lol a bit extreme!
I think country dude hit it on the head for me. I'm not going to repeating myself, but if its not ever going to be concidered then perhaps something that allows Non sith 'Darths' to be in 'Sith' factions, but at a high price.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/1850/marka-ragnos--legacy-of-the-sith
Sashlon
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:55:56 AM
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No way.

Sidious, Maul, Lumiya and Caedus shouldn't be in that faction eith IMO
cicrush13
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:13:20 AM
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Agreed.

Vader served the Sith teachings and followed a Sith master, but he was the face of the Empire. He brought enemies of the Empire down and that's what people feared.

I also think that a Maul and 2 Sidious's for the Sith is a lil far-fetched but they weren't tied to a specific faction at the time.

Vader = Imperial only!
NickName
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 6:04:23 AM
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Preferably no. I like Vader as exclusively Imperial.

But the Sith faction is so scattershot fluff-wise it wouldn't be any worse than it already is.
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