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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/19/2010
Posts: 86
Location: Springfield Illinois
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According to Cambridge's dictionary a faction is, "A group within a larger group, especially one with slightly different ideas from the main group." I.e. The (Galactic Republic, Sith, Galactic Empire, Old Republic, New Republic, Fringe, Yuuzhan Vong, Mandalorian, Alliance to Restore the Republic, Confederation of Independent Systems) is a faction of the Star Wars Universe. A Faction cannot be determined by time or by ideology. Example being: European Union-a Faction of united European Independent States that have collectively joined for mutual benefit. However, I can tell you from experience that the ideology of the English and those of Romanians are radically different.  Likewise, time cannot determine a factor. Example- Persians. We Americans (or this American  ) learn in history class that Persia was a powerful Ancient civilization that fought against Alexander the Great's expansion into Asia. However, modern Middle Easterners-a majority being Iranian- call themselves Persian because that is their Faction they associate themselves with. Although it was Persia a long time ago, it is called the Middle East now... This being said...The Faction a mini belongs to cannot be definitively determined because of the implications of actions, time-frame, ideology, personality, Race(there has yet to be a none-Rebel Bothan despite their presence in the New Republic, the Old(er) Republic in Pers'lya a Bothan Supreme Chancellor in 15,000 BBY, etc.) The truth is you can put a Vader in the Sith, a Darth Caedus in the New Republic, a Juhani in the Old Republic, a Jedi Master Count Dooku in the Republic, a Lieutenant Solo in the Empire, a Senator Leia in the Imperials, or even a Vader in the Rebels! (I mean, according to TFU he ordered its formation  ) So I guess what I'm saying is that although we want to put a Mini in a specific Faction it isn't that simple. But because we all look at a specific Star Wars character through different eyes (mainly because if we did all see through the same eyes it would be gross...) a system of arbitrary judgment must be made so that cohesive play can occur. So a faction is this... "A Faction is whatever the higher ups say it is."
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/29/2009
Posts: 496
Location: Nebraska
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First of all its erroneous to take just one definition from just one dictionary and apply it is being law here. Another possiblly applicable definition comes from OED :"A class, sort, or set of persons." Your definition applies more to a situation where there is a rift in a group.
Oftentimes it really is that simple. Name any character you want, at a specific moment in Star Wars history, and it should be pretty easy to see what faction it should go in. Issues arise when we add characters to the game without adding factions to reflect their era. It simply wasn't worth it to make a new faction for Krayt and pals. But, I don't see how adding another era to what the faction represents means that it should be suddenly open to all eras including all characters that might fit under what WotC named the faction.
Legacy was too big to be left out of the game, but too small to warrant creating more factions. It's added gray area, but with the exception of Legacy Era and the already exception-worthy Fringe (and those weird mandos), factions are still almost entirely united by idealogy, Era, and common enemy.
A lot of these issues were created by throwing an Era into the game without getting a new set of factions like all previous additions of Eras have done. That doesn't change the fact that many factions are still defined by Era.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
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Roland Alistair wrote: So a faction is this... "A Faction is whatever the higher ups say it is." Only if you are looking for a 100% all inclusive answer that means absolutely nothing is this true. The reality is, a "Faction" in SWMs has definition and limits. The issue is that narratives rarely are easily defined by strict deliniation of "sides". We can't just divide everyone up into Jets and Sharks and continue on our way. Some people cross boundaries or never really fit to begin with. So "Faction" is a loose representation of our game rules that tries to divide up which pieces should work with other pieces. It's generally based as close as possible on interpretations of Star Wars stories that provide the raw material for the game characters. But just like real life, at times its clear, and at others its messy. This doesn't make it a free for all - it just means that the designers should use their "best guess" at a "Faction" when necessary. I know most SW Fanboys don't spend any time thinking about the implications on game design, but this is a critical piece to understand this issue. You cannot hand out affinity to every character that could potentially have it. This makes designing balanced pieces almost entirely impossible. I can tell you from first hand evidence, that fringe pieces and affinity pieces are exponentially harder to balance than those within a single faction. Further, we generally follow Rob's design on this one. Pieces that really need/deserve it will get it, but not every character that was ever in more than one group. Its a judgment call, but if we've done it right, we should end up hitting on the figures that most people agree should have had it.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/20/2010
Posts: 109
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Now, I want to add something. I'm not taking pot shots. I'm not impugning the hard work of the V-set point men, or the generosity of those who contributed. I've also contributed to bloo milk but have never received recognition for it, but this is the reason why I think V-sets are a really bad idea. When WOTC ran the program, they were "the higher ups." Now, we have a community fighting like mad for their personal tastes and ideology to be represented in the Star Wars miniatures game. This has nothing to do with agree or disagreeing with any particular mini, or faction decision, its simply too difficult for the players to do this. If WOTC does something we don't agree with, oh did they ever as far as I'm concerned, then it doesn't matter. We suck it up. I thought Mas Amedda was a horrible idea, but that decision was made by the product creators.
I was around when the decisions on the v-set were going on, but I didn't participate, I don't even think I had joined up yet. I was just using bloomilk as a reference, but just watching this Darth Vader dispute spill into a semantic discussion of what a faction is, makes me realize I was right to keep away. I should just go back to being the hidden entity I was, but now I'm embroiled in forum discussions, which I know better to than to do, but do anyway.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
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Rikalonius wrote:Now, I want to add something. I'm not taking pot shots. I'm not impugning the hard work of the V-set point men, or the generosity of those who contributed. I've also contributed to bloo milk but have never received recognition for it, but this is the reason why I think V-sets are a really bad idea. When WOTC ran the program, they were "the higher ups." Now, we have a community fighting like mad for their personal tastes and ideology to be represented in the Star Wars miniatures game. This has nothing to do with agree or disagreeing with any particular mini, or faction decision, its simply too difficult for the players to do this. If WOTC does something we don't agree with, oh did they ever as far as I'm concerned, then it doesn't matter. We suck it up. I thought Mas Amedda was a horrible idea, but that decision was made by the product creators.
I was around when the decisions on the v-set were going on, but I didn't participate, I don't even think I had joined up yet. I was just using bloomilk as a reference, but just watching this Darth Vader dispute spill into a semantic discussion of what a faction is, makes me realize I was right to keep away. I should just go back to being the hidden entity I was, but now I'm embroiled in forum discussions, which I know better to than to do, but do anyway. I think you've either misread or misunderstood whats happening. We are having fanboy discussions of Star Warsy stuff, only tangentially related to V-set issues. Do you really think I am here to decide if the community wants a Sith Vader or not? Heck, the discussion started in part because I suggested that we weren't likely to make one. Nothing has changed in that regard. It's just a fun discussion, and people have been engaged and respectful. Relax.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 1,382
Location: Detroit, Mi
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billiv15 wrote:Rikalonius wrote:Now, I want to add something. I'm not taking pot shots. I'm not impugning the hard work of the V-set point men, or the generosity of those who contributed. I've also contributed to bloo milk but have never received recognition for it, but this is the reason why I think V-sets are a really bad idea. When WOTC ran the program, they were "the higher ups." Now, we have a community fighting like mad for their personal tastes and ideology to be represented in the Star Wars miniatures game. This has nothing to do with agree or disagreeing with any particular mini, or faction decision, its simply too difficult for the players to do this. If WOTC does something we don't agree with, oh did they ever as far as I'm concerned, then it doesn't matter. We suck it up. I thought Mas Amedda was a horrible idea, but that decision was made by the product creators.
I was around when the decisions on the v-set were going on, but I didn't participate, I don't even think I had joined up yet. I was just using bloomilk as a reference, but just watching this Darth Vader dispute spill into a semantic discussion of what a faction is, makes me realize I was right to keep away. I should just go back to being the hidden entity I was, but now I'm embroiled in forum discussions, which I know better to than to do, but do anyway. I think you've either misread or misunderstood whats happening. We are having fanboy discussions of Star Warsy stuff, only tangentially related to V-set issues. Do you really think I am here to decide if the community wants a Sith Vader or not? Heck, the discussion started in part because I suggested that we weren't likely to make one. Nothing has changed in that regard. It's just a fun discussion, and people have been engaged and respectful. Relax. Have to agree with Bill on this one. The Vader discussion was actually enjoyable. Its nice to have a somewhat philosophical discussion on Star Wars. No where were there anything inappropriate said about anybody. There have been discussions in the past that have degraded but not this one. As far as the game is concerned, yes we sucked it up when bad characters were made. But combos like Riekan and Dodoonna made a competitive game a thing of the past. By designing V-Sets, They have really balanced a lot of the Factions out.Also, without new sets, How long would discussions like "Vader 's inclusion in the Sith Faction" go on. Would anybody even care. The V-sets at the very least keep people talking about minis. I love that! Are things perfect.. Probably not. But the V-sets have sparked a small growth of players in our area . You couldn't ask for more.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 990
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qvos wrote:billiv15 wrote:Rikalonius wrote:Now, I want to add something. I'm not taking pot shots. I'm not impugning the hard work of the V-set point men, or the generosity of those who contributed. I've also contributed to bloo milk but have never received recognition for it, but this is the reason why I think V-sets are a really bad idea. When WOTC ran the program, they were "the higher ups." Now, we have a community fighting like mad for their personal tastes and ideology to be represented in the Star Wars miniatures game. This has nothing to do with agree or disagreeing with any particular mini, or faction decision, its simply too difficult for the players to do this. If WOTC does something we don't agree with, oh did they ever as far as I'm concerned, then it doesn't matter. We suck it up. I thought Mas Amedda was a horrible idea, but that decision was made by the product creators.
I was around when the decisions on the v-set were going on, but I didn't participate, I don't even think I had joined up yet. I was just using bloomilk as a reference, but just watching this Darth Vader dispute spill into a semantic discussion of what a faction is, makes me realize I was right to keep away. I should just go back to being the hidden entity I was, but now I'm embroiled in forum discussions, which I know better to than to do, but do anyway. I think you've either misread or misunderstood whats happening. We are having fanboy discussions of Star Warsy stuff, only tangentially related to V-set issues. Do you really think I am here to decide if the community wants a Sith Vader or not? Heck, the discussion started in part because I suggested that we weren't likely to make one. Nothing has changed in that regard. It's just a fun discussion, and people have been engaged and respectful. Relax. Have to agree with Bill on this one. The Vader discussion was actually enjoyable. Its nice to have a somewhat philosophical discussion on Star Wars. No where were there anything inappropriate said about anybody. There have been discussions in the past that have degraded but not this one. As far as the game is concerned, yes we sucked it up when bad characters were made. But combos like Riekan and Dodoonna made a competitive game a thing of the past. By designing V-Sets, They have really balanced a lot of the Factions out.Also, without new sets, How long would discussions like "Vader 's inclusion in the Sith Faction" go on. Would anybody even care. The V-sets at the very least keep people talking about minis. I love that! Are things perfect.. Probably not. But the V-sets have sparked a small growth of players in our area . You couldn't ask for more. Got to second this, or third it! I think the dicussion is great! Without wild swinging ideas you dont get the little ones that make the real differences! 
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 3/4/2009
Posts: 518
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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Yeah, this is just a friendly debate. Just like a group of guys might have in their living room while watching star wars and giving into their inner geek  Everything's cool here. Best discussion Bloo Milk has had for ages I think 
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