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Bringin' back the Swarms Options
brennan
Posted: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:03:08 AM
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Joined: 7/21/2009
Posts: 268
So what do you guys think about bringin back the old swarms....I personally remember lining up over 30 BDs and one or two other peices and that was it and it was a lot more fun than some of the headaches we put up with nowadays...

Example:

[rolls dice]

"darn you killed him!"

"he has splash, so the character next to him is dead too"

"oh yeah....darn you killed my two best peices!.....congrats you just took out eight points"

Lets use this as an opportunity to post different characters/mechanics to get swarms back in the game.

heres one of mine:

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/5545/jedi-council-member
Yoto_Yoto
Posted: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:36:39 AM
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Location: Portland, Oregon
I've never been very impressed with combined fire. A boost to combined fire would make swarms more attractive. +4 hit, +10 damage would be way deadlier than just +4 to hit. Higher damage in general is also kind to swarms (a Storm Trooper really has a hard time telling if he's been hit for 10 or for 50, a Jedi doesn't...).
Weeks
Posted: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:02:27 AM
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R&R has several pieces that are great for swarming. I think you'll really like what you see.
Jester007
Posted: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:43:27 AM
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Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 522
Yoto_Yoto wrote:
I've never been very impressed with combined fire. A boost to combined fire would make swarms more attractive. +4 hit, +10 damage would be way deadlier than just +4 to hit. Higher damage in general is also kind to swarms (a Storm Trooper really has a hard time telling if he's been hit for 10 or for 50, a Jedi doesn't...).


I made a suggestion several months back for a new ability called "Covering Fire" which would allow the character that is combinning fire to do so for ALL the attacking character's rolls. That way you could use one piece to boost all four of Rex's/Dash's/Cad Bane's/etc. attacks.

As for the extra damage part, that's why we have Spotter. Are you suggesting a new ability that works like Spotter but with a greater range from the target Yoto?

Sincerely,
Jester007
juice man
Posted: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:55:36 AM
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Joined: 1/5/2009
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Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
Yoto_Yoto wrote:
I've never been very impressed with combined fire. A boost to combined fire would make swarms more attractive. +4 hit, +10 damage would be way deadlier than just +4 to hit. Higher damage in general is also kind to swarms (a Storm Trooper really has a hard time telling if he's been hit for 10 or for 50, a Jedi doesn't...).


Bail Organa - Alderaan Trooper +6/+10
Yoto_Yoto
Posted: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:45:52 PM
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Location: Portland, Oregon
Jester007 wrote:
As for the extra damage part, that's why we have Spotter. Are you suggesting a new ability that works like Spotter but with a greater range from the target Yoto?

A change to the combine fire rule rather than a new ability.

Right now I feel like combining fire takes a lot of activations, stops the shooters from moving, and if it's grunts combining with grunts still only does 10 damage. It's just not anything close to cost efficient.

Compare two 5pt Stormtroopers who combine fire with an 11pt Elite Stormtrooper. Against a defense 18 target the 10pts of grunts will average 6pts of damage if they combine fire, and 8pts if they don't. The 11pt elite will average 12pts against the same target.

The grunts do *less* damage on average if they combine fire as well as becoming less mobile. Either way they're under performing the same cost in more elite shooting.

This trend continues all the way up the food chain. Against a higher defense (24 say) a very expensive shooter like Cad Bane does about four times the damage of his cost in Stormtroopers. At the same time he has way more HP, way more mobility, retains his effectiveness as he takes damage, and otherwise beats the snot out of his cost in grunts.

If points are supposed to be a measure of battlefield prowess, you'd think 50pts of shooters lined up against 50pts of shooters should be a wash. It really isn't though. The 50pt piece beats the ten 5pt pieces every time. Changing that would take a pretty substantial house rule (like combine fire adds damage as well) and would dramatically change the game.
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:46:53 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
What if it was a 50 pt character against 25 pts of grunts and 25 pts of Commanders, and it should be a bit closer. 1 on 1 comparisons, or exact points vs exact points, does not work. This is a squad game, synergies still apply. There is a reason why Grandmaster Luke is not at the top. A squad filled with as many of one type of figure should not be as good as a well constructed squad, as is tossing in a big fig without a proper support should not do well.

Unfortuneatly, WOTC made the biggest counters to swarms in very playable Gallopping and Strafe Attack pieces. Those two abilities really nerf the potential of "traditional" swarm teams.

I'm all for new special abilities, but changing the rules is a very, very bad idea.
General_Grievous
Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:35:59 AM
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Weeks wrote:
R&R has several pieces that are great for swarming. I think you'll really like what you see.


Is that new commanders to boost the old favourite swarms (tuskens, battle Droids, stormtroopers)

Or some new swarm pieces? I also would love to see a return to the swarm days.
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:39:33 AM
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Both!
General_Grievous
Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:36:13 AM
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Weeks wrote:
Both!


YES! Awesome! Here is hoping for separatist Droids but regardless it will be nice to see the massive armies again. Really looking forward to the new set now
SquelchDog
Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:12:28 AM
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Joined: 12/2/2009
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Location: New York, Albany Just south of Darth Maul's House
General_Grievous wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Both!


YES! Awesome! Here is hoping for separatist Droids but regardless it will be nice to see the massive armies again. Really looking forward to the new set now


Woo Hoo! ThumpUp +1 Wink
qvos
Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:42:27 PM
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Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 1,382
Location: Detroit, Mi
I like Using Poggle the lessor for the Geonosian Swarms, specially when you get a bomb at only a cost of 2 points with the Drone!
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