It's similar to how Han has a Force rating but he really isn't all Force sensitive.

The designers did have a debate over whether to give him Force or not. They did toy with him having Intuition, but felt it wouldn't work out.

Whether Han or other older pieces that couldn't use the Force had Force Points is irrelevant to newly created pieces.

Because the game is in the hands of new Devs, there is little reason to play off old representations of Luck/Skill when brand new accurate ones can be created instead.

I really don't mean to be rude but giving Carth Onasi, a definitively non force sensitive character, Force Points instead of coming up with a new or better solution because others in the past had it, is just an easy way out as well as unimaginative. I can imagine there was a pretty good bit of debate over it, but that it actually stuck with him is very surprising to me.

I won't argue for intuition as it could have been just as easy, if not time consuming, to make a new ability for him. But there is no legitimate reason to continue a trend of poor design involving the force to represent luck or whatever.

Like I said, I don't mean to be rude and don't want to sound unappreciative of the work put into the V-Sets, but I just don't see why there isn't a more creative solution here... isn't that a big part of the V-Sets? New creation?

I couldn't have said it better

I don't know, given John Jackson Miller helped with the KOTOR RPG book, sort of gave them some idea of what to expect. It at least appeared he had the final ideas at that time, even if it wasn't exactly paced for the 50 issues.

Of course, one could argue that Light Tutor just giving FPs and Force Ratings to figures, including Droids is bad. And Surprise Move isn't exactly Jediee. Still sad that Kyle doesn't have Blaster Barrage...

I think some characters get put into certain factions based on that specific aspect of the character. As far as your Juhani/Dass/Jax examples go; you could argue the question of why "Darth Sidious" (both CS/COTF) didnt have affinity for Sith since they were obviously sith; same goes for Kreia; Vader; etc. etc....the designer probably represented them based on a certain aspect of their character. For example; while the Rebel Alliance didnt exist during Jax/Dass's time; they both were against the Empire but not in the organized fashion which we recognize today as THE Rebels.

And honestly; I dont think it matters as far as who doesnt/gets FPs on their character. I think its a simple way to reflect how lucky the character is. Both Han and an Ish Tib Scout have Evade; but who is luckier? Han obviously; so why not give him a FP to reroll an Evade save he fails?

I totally see your point with unfair JH bonuses to non-force-sensitive characters; but I think it helps even out the odds a bit. Most characters that are played with FPs are near-top tier; so I think (going along with the ideas of VSets) its ok for characters with JH to have a bonus against them to help balance out their squads. And besides; most non-force-sensitive-but-has-FPs characters are not used; the main one is Jarael and (a while ago) Han Scoundrel. However; I do agree that new abilities could posibly be created; such as "Greater Evade" where its a Save 6 instead of Save 11. Of course; that would boost characters like Han by like 10-20 points lol.

As for gwek's "If it aint broke dont fix it"; if we applied that to SWM; then no VSets with outside-the-box SAs would be created; and Rebels; Seps; NR; Republic; and Imps would continue on ruling the meta. YV; OR; Sith; and Mandos would continue to suck. Sometimes I think its ok to change up some things a bit (like what the vset designers are doing) :)

Just my 2 cents. :)

There is no right or wrong answer to some of these views. How you view something, doesn't necessarily mean it will be viewed the same way. Heck, even giving Han Solo a lightsaber isn't inherently wrong, depending on how much value you place on one scene.

Some view Carth as being a tad Force Sensitive, as evidenced by his son apparently. Others do not. I think both are fine views, it's just one view got made over the other. I don't want a Sith Vader, but I understand why others want it. I personally would love to see another Han with FPs, as well as Greivious.

Just remember, this whole saga has revolved around "certain points of view".

I may be speaking out of turn here, but I'm fairly sure the main idea behind giving Carth a force rating was that the designers wanted him to have a limited Intuition option. The neatest way to accomplish that was to give him a couple of FPs and stick Surprise Move on him.

There is certainly plenty of precendent in game design (Han, Jarael, Grievious, PROXY) for the designers to do this. Funny thing is, you're knocking them for doing exactly what they always said they would do, follow WOtC design philosophy wherever possible.

What's equally ridiculous is that if the designer did deviate from precedent, we'd have a whole chorus of people whinging about that too.

Doesn't mean it needs to continue, its an inaccurate system and poor concept because a real solution was never thought of to represent it all properly at the time. I have a lot of faith in the design team to come up with a better method as well. Also I think it's been well covered that Jarael doesn't count in that list. She has the misfortune of being developed before the end of her overall story was finished.



Maybe if droids were no longer immune to crits or something radical. but coming up with a legitimate replacement of force points to represent a Lucky character better... I can't imagine any whining at all.

In fact, why not just have an ability that prevents them from being the target of CE or special abilities that apply to characters with force points. As those abilities and commander effects are all intended for Force Users or Sensitives, NOT characters who by design are lucky enough to be afflicted by them because of a printed text.

Why should Carth be able to benefit from something like Mettle or be hurt by Jedi Hunter.. thats ridiculous and silly.
What if Carth wanted to reroll an attack against the Vong? he isn't using the force right.. he is just a lucky guy right.. but is just screwed? It's silly and wrong

Personally, I think bringing "who belongs in what faction" into this conversation complicated matters, since faction and stats are two different things.

For the record, though, my personal opinion is that for the KotOR pieces, any characters who stuck with you for light/dark should have been Fringe; those who were good for light side only should have been Old Rep. For that matter, I think Zayne Carrick and probably Jarael should have been Old Rep. Just because Zayne wasn't an official part of the Jedi Order doesn't mean he wasn't still working for the Republic's best interests.

Anyway...



Obviously, each set builds and expands on previous ones, but some things remain constant ("If it ain't broke..."). The V-Set designers felt that one thing that was broke was how unbalanced the faction equality was. They apparently didn't think that the idea of using Force points to represent "special" non-Force-users was broken. So they didn't need to fix anything there.

And, technically, your erroneous adaptation of my comment would wouldn't mean the the YV, OR, Sith, and Mandos would suck. They simply wouldn't exist.

carth has force for one reason. To limit his amount of intuitions he can use. This carth with intuition is crazy strong for just 29. You'd be looking at a high 30s cost for just intuition.

I was arguing against giving him force from the start, but take a step back and think about it in game terms. you get 2 rounds of intuition to play with or 2 rerolls of attacks and thats it. Carth having force is a bit odd, I'll grant you that. But look at it "game terms" and it makes scence.