The Epic format mentioned in another thread sounds very cool. I'm also looking forward to an official mass battles ruleset (i.e. 50+ figures per side). I've heard of multiple mass battles rulesets, and I'm sure the designers are already discussing this sort of thing behind closed doors, but I thought I'd bring the topic out for everyone's discussion.



Here's one proposal (just to get the conversation started):

SQUAD-BUILDING

Instead of squad vs squad, the game is "side" versus "side" with each side made up of multiple squads. For example, 1000 points per side. Each side is arranged into multiple 100 point squads. Plus one squad on each side is designated as the 200 point "command squad".

CHARACTER DESIGNATION

Every character is designated as either a squad character or an independent character. Squads other than the command squad are activated as entire squads, and characters in those squads are considered "squad characters". Characters in the command squad are activated like normal characters and are considered "independent characters".

TURN STRUCTURE

During your phase, you take two turns. Each turn consists of activating either one independent character or one squad. (First phase of a round has only one turn, as normal.)


COMMAND SQUAD
* Only three commanders allowed in the command squad. CEs on commanders in the command squad may be applied to the entire side (subject to range restrictions).
* Tempo control pieces must be in the command squad - otherwise tempo control is ignored.
* Likewise for initiative and reserves.
* Only independent characters may use Intuition or Surprise Move


NON-COMMAND SQUADS
Basics:
* Non-command squads essentially share a pool of hit points, take damage as a unit, share a pool of force points, and share an activation.
* At most one commander. Keep the commander's card next to a stack of cards consisting of all other characters in the squad.
* The cards of all characters in the squad other than the commander are in a stack. You may reorganize the stack only at the beginning of your turn. The card on top represents the character currently at the front of the battle (for both attacking and defending/taking damage).
* Squads must stick together as a cohesive unit: Every character must be within 4 squares of another character in its squad. This is checked twice per turn:
-- When a squad activates, the squad takes 10 damage per character that is not within 4 squares of another character in its squad, and the squad MUST then move to restore cohesion. If the squad cannot move to restore cohesion, the separated characters are defeated. (No damage is removed from the squad when characters are lost in this way.)
-- After a squad moves, all characters in the squad must be within 4 squares of another character in the squad. Otherwise the move is illegal.
* Damage is generally applied to the squad as a whole. If the squad's damage is ever greater than the HP of the character on top of the stack, the character on top of the stack is defeated. Remove the character's figure from the board, its card from the stack and remove damage from the squad equal to the character's hit points.
* CEs on commanders within a squad may only be applied to characters in that squad.
* Squads (other than the command squad) activate all at once with the same options as characters:
Attack/Move, Move/Attack, or Move/Move. You could also forego an entire squad's turn to let a squad character use a 'replaces turn' action.
* Squads start with a number of Force Points equal to the sum of the starting Force Points of all followers in the squad. Force Renewal is based only on the card on top of the squad deck. Any character in the squad may spend a squad Force Point (on the rationale that force-sensitive squad members are helping their brothers-in-arms). Spending a Force Point for Move Faster only allows a single character to move 2 extra squares, not the whole squad. On a turn, the squad may only spend Force Points once per turn, unless the second time the squad spends force points, the character performing the action has Master of the Force.
* The squad commander shares an activation with the squad, but he takes damage separately and has his own separate pool of force points.

Movement
* To move a squad, move each character in the squad up to its speed all at once. Cohesion must be maintained after movement. If moving twice (i.e. no attack), cohesion needs only be checked after the second move.
** Attack of opportunity during squad movement:
*** If any character in the squad would take an attack of opportunity from an independent character, the independent character attacks that specific squad character. If the damage is greater than the character's HP, the specific character is defeated. If the damage is less than the squad character's HP, the damage is applied to the squad.
*** If any character in the squad would take an attack of opportunity from a squad character, the enemy squad makes a squad vs squad attack. Like characters, squads may only make one attack of opportunity per turn.

Attacking with a Squad
* To attack with a squad, there are two options:
-- Make a character attack (or use an ability that replaces attacks). Any one character in your squad may attack any one other character, either an independent character or a single specific squad character. If you attack a specific squad follower and the damage is less than the squad character's HP, damage is applied to the squad instead of the character. Squad commanders and independent characters accumulate damage. If you attack one specific squad character and the damage is greater than the squad character's HP, the enemy squad character is defeated. Only independent characters (not squad characters) may combine fire during a character attack.
-- Make a squad attack. Your squad may attack an enemy squad.
--- Attack roll: Choose either your commander or the character on the top of the squad deck to be the primary attacker. If neither can target an enemy in the other squad, you cannot make a squad attack. Target a figure in the enemy's squad. Immediately swap that enemy character with the character on top of the enemy's squad deck. Attack that character with your primary attacker (even if the enemy is no longer a legal target due to Cloaked or some other ability). Allies in your squad may combine fire if they are able. Any damage dealt goes to the enemy squad. The primary attacker may make use of Double Attack (if the squad didn't move), Twin Attack, or any other applicable abilities.
--- Auto-damage: It's a mass battle - there will be damage. Add up the base damage of every non-melee character in your squad that has line of sight to a character in the enemy squad. (Do not count your characters who combined fire during the Attack roll.) Add to that the base damage of every melee character in your squad that is adjacent to a character in the enemy squad. If the primary attacker caused damage during its attack, deal damage equal to the sum to the enemy squad. If the primary attacker did not deal any damage, deal half the sum (rounded up).

-- Note that almost always, squads attack squads and characters attack characters. You can't normally have a squad attack against one character or an independent character attack a squad.


INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS
* Take turns as normal. They may make character attacks against specific squad followers - if they do not cause enough damage to defeat that squad follower, the damage goes to the squad instead. If they cause enough damage to defeat that character, they defeat that specific character - not the character on top of the deck. They may target squad commanders - any damage stays with the commander, not the squad. Note that squad commanders will be the last in a squad to die unless targeted specifically.
* Temporarily join squads. If they are within 4 squares of a squad character, they may be considered temporarily part of the squad only for the purpose of gaining benefit from the squad CE.

DISSOLVING A SQUAD
* When a squad is down to 1 character left (typically the commander), the squad is dissolved and the character is considered an independent character. For squad commanders, they lose their commander effect and are considered followers.

REASSIGNMENT
* At the end of the turn of a commander in the command squad, you may move up to two characters' cards from their squad decks to other squad decks. (This is to make boardwide swap possible among squads, but can also be used to save characters separated from their squads.)

GANGING UP
* If no character in a squad has line of sight to any enemy squad characters, the squad may make a squad attack against an independent character (i.e. Primary attacker attacks, followed by auto-damage).

Thanks - it's pretty rough, though. It's just to get the conversation started - not playtested at all. I didn't even consider force points within squads. Oops.

[EDIT: Okay, I went back and added a rule to allow for a pool of force points shared by a squad.]

I wanted to come up with a way to:

* Reduce complexity. Not rules complexity, but the number of "things" a player has to think about. These rules provide sides that are just a 200 point command squad plus 8 other squads to worry about, where each other squad basically function as a single unit. Beyond the 200-point command squad, it's only 16 more visible cards due to stacking the squads as a deck + commander, which is a lot perhaps, but nothing compared to spreading all of the cards out.

* Reduce play-time. This would still be wayyy longer than a normal game, but squad attacks will deal out a bunch of damage all at once without rolling. So it would also be wayyy shorter than trying to activate every character individually.

* Prevent uber-troopers. No character can be subject to more than 4 commander effects: 3 from the command squad and 1 from its own squad. So you can boost pretty well, but not to ridiculous amounts.

* Maintain flavor. It lets individual characters step "out" of their squad one at a time when they are the primary attacker or when needed, and it lets the heroes stay in the command squad so they can run around the battlefield while the squads stay focused on other squads. (The picture I have in mind is the opening battle of the Clone Wars film with Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Ahsoka running around basically untouched among the battle.)

How do you handle the complexity and the playtime? 5 players taking turns with simultaneous play is one way to do it. How do you handle the times where there's interaction among the simultaneous moves? Simultaneous play would deal out damage 5 times as fast (speeds up the game) and each player would only have to deal with one squad at a time (reduced complexity), but it doesn't seem like it would scale well to a 1 player vs 1 player mass battle.

Here's a ruleset that uses a tabletop with free movement instead of a grid. Moving off the grid is not my preference at all. The maps in SWM are one of the best parts of the game. (There are lots of best parts of the game.)

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/307910/star-wars-miniatures-mass-battles-conversion

The 2 people who have the most experience (but not all) running mass battle events at GenCon are DVader831 and Grand Moff Boris. (Or is it Boris on Bloomilk? I can't remember.)

Rules for mass battles that I have run varied from scenario to scenario. Factors influencing them are time, the experience level of the people playing, their familiarity with each other, and scenario goals, to name a few. For instance, in order to save time when that is a concern if I have a large number of players, I will assign each one a playing card. At the beginning of each round I'll shuffle those cards and draw them one at a time. That is initiative order.

The important thing to remember is to keep the game moving. The game is an abstraction anyway, so if you have to further abstract things to fit a timeframe, the timeframe is paramount. How many of us have played a mass battle, only to run out of time with no resolution? I know I've felt like I wasted however much time I spent playing. Keeping the game moving also speaks to the interest level with your players. That interest level is affected by age and experience. I have found that when I've run mass battles at conventions that a lot of younger players play in them. They quickly lose interest if the time between turns is too much.

Be able to make decisions on the fly. If you have a large number of people playing and there are specific scenario goals, there will always be those who will creatively test the boundaries of your special scenario rules. Be fair, but don't be too restrictive. While making rules on the fly is not acceptable in any type of competitive play, in a non-competitive situation, if done fairly, can actually contribute to the enjoyment level by the players. (Be aware that charging entrance fees and offering prize support can elevate the game in the players' minds to be considered competitive.)

Just a few thoughts on the topic...hope they help.

No, most of my experience with mass battles is multi-player scenarios, either group games at the store or my house, or convention games with a limited timeblock.

1 on 1 should be easier. There is a miniatures game out called Arcane Legions that uses control points in a way that I like. Each of the 2 players places a control area. It has to be within a certain range of the center of the board, and carries more weight than gambit as far as scoring goes. Translating to a SWM scenario, each player could choose a control area that could score by round, or be victory conditions. (Such as if you control both areas at the end of a round you win.) Think of victory conditions that force engagement, not just a firefight from across the board.

I usually preset the squads... this may work as well with 1 on 1. In 'historic' scenarios, this is almost a must, unless you limit or ban pieces, in which case you may as well preset them. In presetting, you can also have the game set up in advance if one person can get there early and the other can't.

Generally I've approached each scenario in a unique way. Set the time period, set the goal(s), apply any special rules that streamline the game or force the players to focus on the goals, then build the squads. While you don't have to do this for 1 on 1, playtesting is always important.

The benefit of using off the shelf stuff (ie free) instead of making it yourself.

Mainly I was just linking to the old thread where people had posted their mass battle rules, hoping that FlyingArrow would see it as well.