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Jedi_Master wrote:
But, again, MotF states you can use the same action twice. In the case of movement (or moving faster in this sense) the action is moving further. In the sense of rage, raging is the action. Why would an ability state you can use an action twice if the effect could only be used once? Why also would it then work differently for abilities like alter who can effect multiple different targets as it is still the same ability causing the effect?
Some effects can be used more than once. For example, Move Faster (+2) is not a named force ability and it stacks. Force Alter can be used twice in the same turn. Deflect and Block can be used twice in the same turn if they're on different attacks. If you have MotF2 and Captain Tarpals, you can use replaces attacks abilities twice. (It's possible to get 8 attacks out of two Twin Lightsaber Assaults that way!) Abilities that say 'Usable only on this character's turn' can usually be used twice as long as they aren't being stacked. For example, you can try Stunning and re-Stunning the same character if the first one fails. As long as there's no stacking, and you aren't trying to activate the same ability twice off the same trigger, then you'll get the effect twice. Some examples that would be considered stacking and therefore grant no benefit to using twice with MotF2: Sith Rage Master Speed Dark Temptation Control Minds Battle Meditation Force Valor
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FlyingArrow wrote:Jedi_Master wrote:
But, again, MotF states you can use the same action twice. In the case of movement (or moving faster in this sense) the action is moving further. In the sense of rage, raging is the action. Why would an ability state you can use an action twice if the effect could only be used once? Why also would it then work differently for abilities like alter who can effect multiple different targets as it is still the same ability causing the effect?
Some effects can be used more than once. For example, Move Faster (+2) is not a named force ability and it stacks. Force Alter can be used twice in the same turn. Deflect and Block can be used twice in the same turn if they're on different attacks. If you have MotF2 and Captain Tarpals, you can use replaces attacks abilities twice. (It's possible to get 8 attacks out of two Twin Lightsaber Assaults that way!) Abilities that say 'Usable only on this character's turn' can usually be used twice as long as they aren't being stacked. For example, you can try Stunning and re-Stunning the same character if the first one fails. As long as there's no stacking, and you aren't trying to activate the same ability twice off the same trigger, then you'll get the effect twice. Some examples that would be considered stacking and therefore grant no benefit to using twice with MotF2: Sith Rage Master Speed Dark Temptation Control Minds Battle Meditation Force Valor Some examples of ones that do: Q: The following Force powers don't contain the phrase that they replace attacks or turns: Drain Life, Force Stun, Jedi Mind Trick, Sith Hatred, Sith Sorcery, Transfer Essence. (This applies to some abilities as well, like Targeting.) Does this mean I can use them in addition to my normal move and/or attack? Could I use them after moving but before attacking or vice versa? Could I use them between 2 attacks? (For example, attack and defeat one character, then use Transfer Essence to move to a different space and continue a triple attack on another target.) A: Yes to all of the above. Q: Could I use the listed powers above twice in a turn or even twice in a row if the character has Force Spirit or Master of the Force? A: Yes. That is from the same errata we get the master speed and sith rage ruling. Why can we use transfer essence twice? It is a movement ability and one that effects a character twice. Why drain life and sith hatred? Both have the same effect and yet both stack...yet you can't benefit from the same named ability?
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Jedi_Master wrote:The stacking rule states: Unless otherwise specified, no effect produced by a Force power, special ability, commander effect, or cover stacks with itself. For example, a Clone Trooper Commander can give nearby Trooper followers a +3 bonus to Attack, but two Clone Trooper Commanders together can’t give a Trooper follower a +6 bonus.
MotF States: A character with this Force power may spend Force points up to the stated number of times in a single turn. This character can also spend Force points more than once to take the same action
MotF is a specific exception, as per the stacking rule and its own wording. MotF is not an exception to stacking - it doesn't say things that normally don't stack now stack. It just says that you can take the same action more than once - not that actions that do not normally stack now stack. See Mettle, Extra Attack, and Magma Pebble for examples of wording that indicates stacking.
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Jedi_Master wrote:
Some examples of ones that do:
Q: The following Force powers don't contain the phrase that they replace attacks or turns: Drain Life, Force Stun, Jedi Mind Trick, Sith Hatred, Sith Sorcery, Transfer Essence. (This applies to some abilities as well, like Targeting.) Does this mean I can use them in addition to my normal move and/or attack? Could I use them after moving but before attacking or vice versa? Could I use them between 2 attacks? (For example, attack and defeat one character, then use Transfer Essence to move to a different space and continue a triple attack on another target.)
A: Yes to all of the above.
Q: Could I use the listed powers above twice in a turn or even twice in a row if the character has Force Spirit or Master of the Force?
A: Yes.
That is from the same errata we get the master speed and sith rage ruling. Why can we use transfer essence twice? It is a movement ability and one that effects a character twice. Why drain life and sith hunger? Both have the same effect and yet both stack...yet you can't benefit from the same named ability?
You can use the same named ability twice in a row if it is "Usable on this character's turn" (or if it is "Replaces attacks" and you have Captain Tarpals). If the ability completely resolves like the ones listed above before the second instance is started, then the question of stacking never comes into play. Stacking is simultaneously getting the benefit of the same ability twice. Sith Rage, Dark Temptation, etc. provide ongoing bonuses for a whole turn, so you can't have two 'copies' of the same one providing bonuses at the same time... that would violate the stacking rule.
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You know, someone should write an article that covers all this stacking stuff from top-to-bottom. Put it on swmresources.com. That would rule.  ps - I don't have the best technical writing skills, or the time, so... any volunteers? 
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