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Poll Question : Should we start banning pieces in competitive play
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes! Excellent Idea! 12 20.338983 %
I'm on the fence about the idea 7 11.864406 %
No! Terrible idea! 38 64.406779 %
If this happens I'm done playing the game. 1 1.694915 %
Could care less 1 1.694915 %

Is it time to start banning pieces? Options
qvos
Posted: Sunday, June 9, 2013 3:34:51 AM
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Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 1,382
Location: Detroit, Mi
Darthbane53 wrote:
In a word, with out reading anything. No. If you don't like a piece don't play with it.

Totally AgreeBlooMilk
UrbanShmi
Posted: Sunday, June 9, 2013 11:57:28 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
corranhorn wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
corranhorn wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
trappedslider wrote:
Darth_Reignir wrote:
I'm just going to ask this:

Where is the evidence that the player base is dwindling


the lack of a regional in Mo is evidence for one thing

Here's the evidence that speaks most clearly to me: in 2010 when WotC dropped the game, we had 64 players in the Championship at Gencon...last year in 2012, we had 38 players in the Championship. The numbers have been decreasing every year. I'm curious how many we'll have this year in 2013.

So, according to the biggest competitive tournament in the game, we've lost almost half of our players. This is talking about the competitive scene though; the local scene is harder to quantify.


I think we need at least 2 GenCons in a row with significantly lower player numbers to draw big conclusions. For all we know A bunch of things came up around Gen Con.

I don't have the numbers in my head for 2011, but if someone wants to do the research, they'll find that it has been a steady decrease each year.

In fact, I know from my own experience at Gencon that the numbers have been decreasing every year for the past 5 years.


Another way to quantify the bleed of the game is to count the number of Regionals and the attendance at those Regionals. Again, I don't have those numbers handy, but they are living proof that the game is slowly bleeding. I'll continue to be as enthusiastically involved in SWM as before, but I'm not going to pretend either.


Well if all that's true than I agree.


According to the post on Gamers, 40 people played in the championship in 2011. So we had a big drop between 2010 and 2011 (which would be expected in that time frame), but a much smaller drop between 2011 and 2012.

The largest Regional on record was the Wisconsin Regional in (I think) 2011, which had 37 players. This year, Kokomo and PA are tied for the largest attendance, at 16.

Certainly the COMPETITIVE game seems to be dwindling, which is unfortunate but probably inevitable. Even though the V-sets have been awesome for the competitive game, as has been observed elsewhere (and probably in this thread), they seem to have widened the gulf between "competitive" play and "casual" play. The recruitment and retention problem that's been getting a lot of play lately (and rightly so), feeds into this issue, because it would be VERY difficult for someone to jump into the competitive game as it is now. I'm hopeful that the ideas being discussed about breaking the game down to the most basic levels and then adding complexity gradually will help to draw people in, but I wonder how many people would just stop at, say, level 3 or 4, and never explore what the game has to offer at the competitive level. Of course, people should play whatever's fun to them and their group--those of us who enjoy competitive games will have an outlet for that for at least the next couple of years, and there's always VASSAL. The important thing is to get people playing and keep them playing.

As for the actual topic of the thread, I see no need for banning pieces in the national, competitive scene (which is all we're talking about, because of course people can do whatever they want in their own playgroups). Negative Play Experiences are one thing, but with so many options now, they're relatively rare. There isn't anything in the game right now on the national level that dominates to the extent that you have to either play it, play a counter, or plan to lose.
jhc36
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:54:25 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/4/2008
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Location: Yuuzhan'tar
Always fun times to have these discussions. It's nice to see multiple pages on one topic that is only a week old. It's good to have some arguments/discussions that don't turn into a flame war. As for banning pieces...nahh... how about banning factions?? Say the Yuuzhan Vong for example...that faction blows.
PrimeClone
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 6:07:59 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 10/16/2010
Posts: 88
I don't believe in banning pieces. However we should consider banning game mechanics such as unlimited override.
Allow for 1 override per phase.
When the initiative mechanic changed from 2 activations to 1 activation at the start of the phase it had a spectacular positive impact on the game. It nerved Master Tactician and the whole Thrawn swap crapp.

Also I really feel nobody is paying attention to the OP saying that certain pieces make it impossible to explore other pieces because they are simply too good. So if variety is truly the main theme of the v-set then you should really consider the possibility to remake certain pieces.
With the V-sets the creators don't give themselves enough room to "hot fix ". Pogle to powerful? Make one adjustment post it online and say this is how it was meant to be played.

You subjugate yourselves to the rules of wotc, instead of embracing the new freedoms gained.

Btw. board wide swap is super lame. I hate that mechanic with a passion. It makes no sense game wise or from a star wars narrative point of view. (Unless it is on Thrawn as originally intended as a 6 square ability).

Super stealth, what a lame game experience that is. And again there is no narrative to support it unless it’s on
Nom Anor.

I get worked up just thinking about it.

So if people talk about banning pieces it’s not necessarily due to pieces being too powerful but because certain pieces forces a game style not everybody enjoys all the time.

Cheers
fingersandteeth
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 7:58:35 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 522
Location: Chicago
Thrawn's swap is hit and fade. Bluffing tactics, totally Thrawn. Panaka too cos he did the swap of queens in AotC.

Super stealth represents spys, undercover agents that you can't see coming.

My feeling about both is that they just add to the games variety.

countrydude82487
Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:01:40 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 1,233
see to me limiting certain things would make sense. But at the same time i can see it going overboard. I mean i would not like to see commander effects limited but others would. I Also Could not see limiting override because there are not an over Abundance of Pieces with it, though there are cheap pieces with it and that is the only issue i see. The thing to me would be a good counter to override. something that suppressed it temporarily.

That is exactly the kind of thing i would like to see rather than banning pieces. Hard counters or even soft counters for the big issues. Things Like Disciplined leader are nice ways of doing it with the abundance of Disruptive abilities now. They are not direct counters to one ability just an effect. Those are the type of effects i love to see and love to play. Also abilities like Jedi Reflexes, and energy Sheilds. Things that there are ways around but are still good counters to specific squad types. They make the game progress in a good way and allow older unplayable pieces to see the light of day again.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:59:07 PM
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Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 907
Location: Central Pa
PrimeClone wrote:


Btw. board wide swap is super lame. I hate that mechanic with a passion. It makes no sense game wise or from a star wars narrative point of view. (Unless it is on Thrawn as originally intended as a 6 square ability).

Super stealth, what a lame game experience that is. And again there is no narrative to support it unless it’s on
Nom Anor.



Both are abstractions...games are full of them.
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