I vote for a cheap counter slave piece so we don't have to start changing existing SAs and potentially FPs. Because if we fix this, than why not make Bastilla's ability last for less time of cost more Force points. Make soresu style mastery just for non adjacent, take away flight on the lancer. Instead of banning or changing I vote for silver bullet. I still really like the idea for a cheap 5 point fringe piece with "anti-slavery" abilities with slave cannot be used. Bam, easy fix without changing anything.

Sorry, I disagree. Silver bullets can work, but I think they're a bad idea in general. This is a conversation about what to do about a pair of pieces that seem to be constricting the meta. I'm not sure I see how making another piece that would essentially have to be included in EVERY competitive squad just in case is that much of an improvement. The other problem is, whatever we do, it has to be done SOON. The Michigan Regional is in less than a month. The next time a new piece can come out is GenCon, and those pieces won't be legal for most of those events. So, although a "silver bullet" might be a viable long-term solution, it doesn't address the fact that we are staring down the heart of the competitive season with these pieces, and we still need to do SOMETHING about them

Daala clearly needs to lose Rapport, and maybe the +10. I haven't played with her or against her, but everything I've read and seen tells me that those two things would keep her competitive without reducing the meta to Daala squads and direct counters.

As for the Zygerian, I hate to say this, but I think we might best be looking at a temporary ban (until after GenCon). The results at FrostyCon clearly show that this piece creates unpleasant play experiences, even for the winners, and goes way beyond just making swarms "competitive." I just don't think we'll be able to come up with a non-silver-bullet solution in the next few weeks. Maybe if we spend the summer working through some of these suggestions in games, we'll have a better chance at coming up with something that will still have the right flavor, but will be less of a problem in the tournament setting.

If the piece is erattaed, they'd probably change the pdf to show the updated version. That's one big advantage for V-sets.

For the record, this does look strong, but I don't think it's quite as nasty as Daman's Daala Raxus Prime squad. It does get a few extra activations and swap and initiative control (which are all significant), but the Raxus can shoot, have wall climber, better stats, and have Needa for crucial rerolls. How did the Hang Glider go? Seems like the Ewok squad would struggle against disruptive, jedi reflexes, and high defense Jedi on paper?

Sounds like Zygerrians are very nasty even without Daala though - very creative squad, that we hopefully don't get to see again.

Seems like we have a consensus that:
- Daala and Zygerrians is way too strong
- Zygerrians are too strong.

Do we need more data on how good Daala is without Zygerrians? Sounds like a consensus that she needs to lose rapport at the very least.





None of those things currently dominate the meta though - GOWK did, but not anymore. The turtle deep strike squads (as Fingersandteeth has christened them) seem like they have very few counters out there, and are warping things. I don't think errata'ing the Lancer, GOWK, or Bastila would do much to the game overall - while permutations of Daala and Zygerrians hosed everything at HamilCon and FrostyCon this weekend.

***Daala Play Testing***

Editor and I ran a brief test on Peaceful City. He ran:

--My Daala --
27 Admiral Daala
25 Moff Disra
22 Covert Ops Clone Trooper
15 Flim
13 Czerka Scientist
13 Snowtrooper Commander
11 Snowtrooper Officer
8 Mas Amedda
16 Zygerrian Slaver x2
10 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x2
4 Raxus Prime Trooper
36 Snowtrooper x9

I ran Classic SkyBuck:
51 Yoda on Kybuck
47 General Skywalker
28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler
27 Lobot
23 Captain Panaka
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda
4 Gran Raider
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

Reinforcements: 3 Brutes, Uggy and R7

I set up on right, he set up on left. Using his Moff Disra's Bribery he took my 3 brutes to his squad. Round 1 was all maneuvering. Round 2 I set up Yobuck for his run by swapping him into position. I would have easily taken out 15 of his 24 activations (provided I didn't roll a 1) with Yobuck, but when I got in range he used his Covert Ops Trooper (brought in by Moff Disra (both SaV pieces)) and was able to use:

Covert Ops Training (If an enemy character within 6 squares has moved this turn, it must attempt a save of 11 before making an attack. On a failure, the attack is cancelled.)

It was my mistake for not knowing this SA, if I had I wouldn't have made the attack. But I did make my attack and it wasn't pretty, and I managed to kill a few pieces but then started failing my saves to attack his pieces. At that point I was dead in the water stuck around a TON of enemy pieces. After quickly losing Yobuck, I conceded, he had me way out activated and the storm was heading my way.

I was so focused on trying to test against Daala I didn't focus on Moff Disra or the Covert Ops Trooper. So many pieces that can fit into the Imperial squads now, honestly, I don't know which piece made that experience more of an NPE for me, Daala, Disra, or that Covert Ops trooper in an Imperial squad.

Perhaps we could try that again and I could run Yobuck more conservatively. If he wouldn't have had that Covert Ops training SA I'd be talking about my victory instead of his. I really thought I had him with Yobuck and we'd be talking a Skybuck squad victory. If he didn't have the Covert Ops Trooper, it would have been a whole ciffernt ballgame.

That's all I've got for now! Thanks!

No problem, just trying to help with this mess.

Yea, I just didn't know the SA on that Covert Ops piece at all. That was my bad. I was more on a time crunch trying to get the match in on vassal so I didn't do my normal pregame homework that I normally do.

Even if I had known it, I doubt the match would have turned out differently.

Oh well, back to the drawing board...

The droids may be able to handle low defense raxus troopers, but 41 battle droids at +8 attack for 10 dmg a hit don't really scare me that much. +20 attack from a 4pt piece on the other hand......

ewoks for the win :)

Ewoks are actually fairly competitive IF you don't think you will see much gallop strafe or much big beefy Jedi. I don't think they could take down something like the old Malgus squad from last regional season, and I think it would be very tough against Mace GOWK. Against Trevor they struggled in a very close game and his big beefy jedi weren't all that big or beefy.

^^^This 100% Well said

That's not something to be proud of.