The Vong don't NEED help against Marn. The squads that play Marn need help against the Vong. It's not a bad thing to have counters in our game...it's actually the basis of a lot of character design.

I feel like this discussion is way off track. Marn and Con Artist can be annoying matchups for certain squads. But having an annoying matchup is not a reason to errata something. IMO, the ONLY reason errata would be warranted would be where a piece has dominated the meta to an extent where you play it, you play a direct counter, or you lose. Adjusting your squad build to be able to adapt in case you see something is not the same as playing a direct counter. Designers make mistakes (not saying Marn was or wasn't a mistake, but in the abstract). Have all the way back to WotC. Pieces that were fine when they came out turn out to be super powerful a couple sets down the line. Or someone uses a piece in an innovative way that might not have been intended when it came out. But errata should be an absolute last resort. It is far preferable to handle NPEs with squad building and design than with rule changes and errata.

There are some suggestions here for design solutions. I don't necessarily agree that even that is needed, but at least it's a potentially productive discussion. My design philosophy is all about opening up options. People should have a choice about how they want to play, and most things should be able to compete. There will always be some very hard matchups, even "autolosses" in certain circumstances. That's okay. With as many squad types as are available to us right now, your realistic chances of facing that particular matchup or of having that matchup define your performance in a tournament are pretty slim. And as has already been pointed out, Marn is NOT an autoloss, even for Emperor-Vader. Emperor doesn't get to lightning as often, or at all. The squad still has lots of ways to kill you, and it's very difficult to kill the Emperor unless you have a lot of direct damage. Almost impossible to get a 3-point win without killing him. So my point is, there are already checks and balances built into the game. I'm still not convinced this piece warrants any more.

+1. Voice of reason UrbanShmi. Thank you for your salient points!

This is thread is fascinating.

Marn is not a full problem, it is jsut a design that has too many possibilities and because of that he makes for some really crappy gameplay sometimes.



Onto suggestions for the balance committee.

I like what somebody said in the other forum and I am paraphrasing.

It seems that maybe things are not too OP right not but are mass NPE's. This is a great statement and something that I am proud of the community for recognizing.

My suggestion to the balance committee is to find those mass NPE's and determine if something should be done about them.

I, personally, feel the following pieces are mass NPE's


Admiral Ozzel
C3PO (directly the cloaked part, stealth would be fine mixed with R2's smoke screen)
Warrior Caste Subcommander
Daala (yes still)
Mas Amedda

Why Ozzel and not Dodonna or San Hill? I agree that Imps are stronger than the others as an overall faction at the moment.

Big + 1

It's a great scout. Certainly something to think about having 1 or 2 of in your squad. Not a warrior.

It's worth considering that San Hill is useful as a MTB counter too.

Agreed, he is also really good for reserves and the seps need him if they even want to pretend to run more costly pieces like Dooku/Sideous. You already killed Poggle, don't take San from me too.

Overall though I'm really liking the variety these days in all of the different factions.

I think the committee should check out the Vong Faction.

I think the committee should think about creating a "banned" list, to encourage new squad builds.

I think the committee should look into "Booming voice" and possibly nixing it all together.

I think a new rule, where you can only activate X number of characters in between initiatives. Like 16. Your squad can have however many, but you can only activate 16 of them (random number)

I think act control should be checked out, and possibly Banned.

And I think Strafe attack should get a -4 to that characters attacks.

This is comical. You want to ban Ozzel? You're saying he's the almighty piece that is bringing unbalance to the SWM universe? LOMFL ........................Come on man

Counters to Ozzel;

Dodonna
San Hill
Neo-Crusader Scout
Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer
Bastila Shan
Any piece with Disruptive-which all factions have access too
Queen Amanoa-At the end of this character's turn, you may select any 1 unactivated enemy. This round, after all characters in your squad are activated, at the end of that turn that enemy is considered activated; save 16. (This includes Droid and Savage characters.)
Cunning Attack squads

And I am sure I am missing many more counters to Ozzel. Not only does this not make sense, but in the thick of the battle, it becomes extremely difficult playing an Ozzel team when you can only activate 1, and your opponent activates 2. In my regional win, there were times I threw Ozzel into the fray to try and get him killed, and my opponent would just ignore him. Dodonna is a far more powerful piece, as he can choose to activate 1 or 2.


Stormtrooper: Let me see your identification.

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: [with a small wave of his hand] You don't need to see his identification.

Stormtrooper: We don't need to see his identification.

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Stormtrooper: These aren't the droids we're looking for.

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: He can go about his business.

Stormtrooper: You can go about your business.

Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi: Move along.


Stormtrooper: Move along... move along.