The point of the second part is that from your posts it seems that to you(and possibly the other designers) there was no other contenders, which simply just isn't true (Starkiller being the most logical alternative, but not the only alternative, perhaps Rahm Kota or Shaak ti could possibly make valid low end epics as well). As far as the release statement, it's nowhere near a threat (I wasn't looking to bait you into releasing anything, which you seemed to have interpretted it as such) it's just an acknowledgment that it's impossible to give more honest criticism about the character and the choice made before knowing what he can do. Right now the only criticism people can offer is entirely based on the choices made for each faction, and so that's what I've done.

For example things like Quad Attack, FR 2+, MOTF, and Djem So mastery to me are not abilities of a Rebel Luke. That said something like "There's still good in him (Replaces attack, target adjacent enemy joins your squad for the rest of the skirmish, save 6)" & Long Shot +?0 would actually be fitting abilities for the underdog Luke in question.

With Luke having the highest cost while in a Faction that does not include him at the height of his power is what really got me concerned, those concerns are not going to subside until the stats are released after Gencon, I understand this and ask you to do the same. Lastly, if you think I'm being petty I ask that you look in the mirror as I've most certainly tried to remain objective and I personally never said Luke was a poor choice (that I remember anyway), just that I was concerned that fanboyism may have influenced the Epic beyond my acceptance level. While there are things in DOTF I'm not keen on as well as some from R&R previews, majority of stuff has been really well done, and looked forward to seeing the same quality in the Epics. In the end it sounds like the Epic set is not my cup of tea, I hope I'm wrong, but that's where I currently find myself - No disrespect was ever intended, just honest criticism.


I referenced Maul as he was the choice made for the epic Seperatist, as far as Maul playing a part - he was the hand of Palpatine and was used to further Sidious' plot to create the Seperatist faction. Again it's not really any different than Starkiller, as the idea behind forming the Rebellion came through Vader not Starkiller himself.

Simply put the Confederacy of Independent Systems plain didn't exist while Maul was alive, and seeing as how he was never part of the movement, and likely not even in on it at all considering what Sidious had planned and failed in Episode 1, I see no justification for it past the Universe set. COTF going forward should have ended it for sure with the establishment of a Sith faction, because up until then there was nowhere better.

It is clear that Palpatine had planned for two potential outcomes involving the Naboo Invasion, either of them suiting him just fine, but considering his Great Apprentice was beaten by a Padawan and then everything went south... well oh well. Best anyone can tell Maul had nothing to do with the Separatists ever. It can be open to interpretation but to my recollection there is no written material where he is aware of such plots or concepts, and if I am indeed wrong then please go find that and prove it to me. I'd like to see it, because I doubt Maul was at every secret club house meeting...

Also would you care to explain a better place where Sith characters would belong without their own faction? When have they not always been Sith serving their own goals? They work for their own agendas, be it a solo act, rule of 2 stuff, or in a large Sith Empire. They are always Sith, be it a mind set or a galactic campaign. They might go into hiding at times, but do they as a whole ever stop being Sith? It is true that some sith have a higher place to be such as Vader in the Galactic Empire, but outside of a situation where there is a true and clear alternative, please explain where the rest don't all fit in. I fail to see how anyone involved in an actual Sith Empire or Movement does not belong in a Sith faction, after you made this claim.



About the only thing in the Sith faction that could have been elsewhere is Lumiya and arguably Caedus. All the rest of the pieces are ancient sith lords who more than belong, or characters from Legacy comics in a giant Sith Empire. Then we have soldiers, droids and dark jedi that fit in very nicely to any given Sith Empire, generally KOTOR as thats where the majority is from. To claim that there shouldn't be an overall Sith faction or a there was a better way to do it is nonsensical.

Is it fair? No not really. But I still think its the right way to have done the Sith. Anything else would have been entirely deluded. you mention era's later in your post, but truthfully most of the Sith factions representation is all fromt he same Era anyway. the Majority from the Last ToTJ books to the KOTOR comics and games. which is all within 100 years of itself. then we have like the one guy from 100 years earlier.. and then the rest is all Legacy Comics and filler guys. As stretched as some of it is, the majority is from around the same time.



by that sort of claim why isn't a piece like Gha Nacht a Sep then? if Durge, Jango, and even an Aurra Sing can be Sep... why not him, he at least had definite ties to them. It's just an empty claim. It is also your opinion and I've already stated mine on Maul, not going to repeat myself.



Vader is a Sith Lord, but he really wouldn't fit anywhere outside the Empire, it can't be justified the same way as Maul or other pieces. I do like the argument you mentioned about Era's though. it's a good support, but I think its harder to place on the Sith without creating excess factions that are likely to be too weak.



What beatsticks should the Seps have anyway? it's pretty much entirely a droid army, with the occasional mercenary, and they have a lot of droid buffs as is. They really are meant to be played as an army more than character based like other factions. Thats just a basis of depiction as they never had heroes the same way outside of a few. That is my opinion and certainly debatable but it does make sense anyway.

Sith are all beatsticks, true, but thats more what they are meant to be anyway. They could have represented a lot of the game better, or tried to balance things out better. to be honest I have to say the V-Sets have been doing it plenty fine, giving everyone some tools and tricks that are much deserved. It's sad we never had some of these concepts sooner in the actual game.

So...I just read 9 pages and here is what I read.... Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke Luke.

Im excited about the new Darth Bane!

I know! Lets change the subject and predict Epic Set 2 characters! My vote goes to Kyle Katarn for New Republic.

eh, "claim" is just a choice of words, I try not to use the same words too many times if possible. Go count how many times the word Luke shows up on this page and you will see why. (lol j/k darkbane)

I respect opinions as well, but it doesn't mean myself or any of us always agree. Sometimes its just a little fun to have conversation or debate, I try not to sound hostile if possible, but in text you can only do so well sometimes. In any case I guess you can only beat the dead horse for so long on certain topics anyway. Plenty of new arguments when All of R&R and the other mini sets are released I bet.

oh yeah, I also noticed that in my last post I really messed up typing the quotes out (which I fixed) haha so I'm done speaking for a while while I go stand myself in the corner for the weekend as punishment. (I'm actually just going away, but have fun everyone)

I’ve got some stupid virus acting like anti-spyware that keeps shutting this down so I’ll make it short.



Simply put the characters in the “faction” in question are plain separated by THOUSANDS of years and multiple major changes in ideology (I’m not even talking about Krayt and friends here). Somehow that is more cohesive than the right hand of the instigator of the separatist movement, the right hand that was a key cog in the first step of that movement, being included in the separatist faction?

You mention that you have no evidence that Maul was aware of Sidious’ plot to start the Separatist movement. Why does knowledge of a plot matter in terms of being a tool in it? Outside of Sidious, WHO knew the nature of his actual plot? Even Dooku was a little surprised at the full nature of the plot, when Sidious told Anakin to kill him. If knowledge of Sidious’ plot for the Separatist movement is a necessary criterion for being in the Seps, then Sidious would be the ONLY separatist.



Wow. Statements like this are why kids still need to learn history in school. You state that from the beginning the Sith faction was always intended to be and was inevitably destined to contain practically anyone and everyone claiming the name Sith, ignoring era and all but the thinnest of ideology considerations. If you look at the result of what has happened and use that for justification of where to go next, citing a pattern that you see after the fact, that if examined carefully, could be clearly seen as having not been predetermined (Look at how each era has its good vs evil, and look at the release date of CotF compared to the Legacy comics, as well as looking at how the only characters in the Sith faction in CotF were from the OR Era), you are simply revising what happened to fit your view.

There’s more to a faction than just a name. If Maul is Sith in the same way that Krayt is a Sith and Malak is Sith, Then why is not Anakin also in Old Republic (since that’s what his era was referred to later on), or Bastila in Republic? In fact, the Republic of Bastila and the Republic of Anakin are much more similar than the Sith of Malak and the Sith of Sidious, yet why are you not calling for OR Anis and Rep Bastilas?



Entirely deluded? Deluded is ripping Maul out of his Era and throwing him in a faction that chronologically he has no business being in. Krayt and pals are in an entirely different situation because they have no Era to go into in the SWM game. If all a faction is is everything that can be thrown under a Name, there’s really no point in having factions from an In-Uni perspective at all, because there is more to a faction than a name.

So as long as most of the characters in the OR are from the OR Era, it’s a good idea to start throwing Qui-Gons, Obi-Wans, and Anakins into the OR faction, because they were members of the Old Republic, right?



This is just unfair. “Their own faction” is your own definition based on (sorry) ignorance of how that faction developed. Why is Republic then not the faction of everyone whoever served the Republic, be it old or new? Bastila and Leia Organa Solo most definitely served the Republic. In fact, the Republic(s) of the three factions we have has (have) MORE in common than the various incarnations of what can loosely be called ”Sith.”

There is a better way to do it. It would be not throwing in everything that could possibly fit under the name alone of the faction, and instead considering eras, ideologies, and associations of the characters we are placing in factions, and actually trying to make Factions in SWM look like factions!

So now that the Sith Faction of SWM is destroyed in practically every sense of the word “faction,” is it such a bad thing to put Mauls or Sidiouses or even Vaders in there? Whatever, I guess not. But if these placements come at the EXPENSE of other factions, factions wherein the allegiances, associations, and temporal existences of the characters are more closely tied, I would consider that to be not a good thing. Is a Sith Maul that bad anymore? Well, no, not really, because he is already in the “Faction” as it has been redefined, and there’s nothing to do about that. But did it need to be redefined, and did (and does now as we make more pieces) that redefinition need to take those characters out of factions in which they have a place, perhaps even more of a place than the factions they are being put into?

EDIT: Wow that was not short.

This might be stirring the pot a little bit, but what if the Luke in this set is named "Luke Skywalker?"

My guess is that it wouldn't be. I always thought that naming a Luke "Luke Skywalker," especially so far after the first set (where the names are simpler), pretty much means that you are stating that the Luke named as such is the definitive Luke. It would be interesting to see if the V-card effort will ever want to make that statement. There was a pretty good discussion about it a while ago, after somebody asked "why is there no 'Luke Skywalker'?" I can't even remember which site it was on though, lol.

I care less about the factions of the pieces. I'm more interested in a "EPIC SET 2 IDEAS FOR CHARACTERS, STATS, AND ABILITIES" thread hint hint. Definitly have some more names to request. There are some characters that could only be an epic (Abeloth, The Father, Daughter and Son), However on the flip side of the character I question their presence in the first set (Maul, Mace) I give props for not throwing in an UBER Fett right off the bat. That alone should quell cries of fanboydom.
The terentak I'm especially looking forward to, some more huge action is always nice to represent the big guys. Jedi Hunter +30 perhaps?
The Phantom Menace I also look forward too, just a total political manipulating beast?
And most of all I'm excited for Czulkang Lah, I have had a soft spot for the scar heads since they first made their debut in Universe, and actually seeing them in the miniatures set made me read the NJO finally. Good times. Anyways keep up good work,

what is niman style mastery? +4 attack and +4 defense?

boba fett bounty hunter with furious?