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MaliciousCrumb wrote:surf_rider56 wrote:MaliciousCrumb wrote:I can't see the ability. All I see on the card is quad attack. Oh, and also, the Rodian Raider is 10pts and has triple attack, just for another comparison. Photobuckets being weird ... fixed .... Yep, that's better. I like Reclusive Species a lot, I think it adds a nice flair to something without being unique. Some species just aren't around or like other beings, a great idea. I think it would be great if it was called Reclusive Species X where X is the number of pieces you can have. Maybe Certain CEs could ignore that restriction, I think it adds a nice flair to species specific "sub-factions," as well as Xenophobic Hunter Abilites that could key off specifically Reclusive Species instead of just "Rodian Hunter."
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AndyHatton wrote:MaliciousCrumb wrote:surf_rider56 wrote:MaliciousCrumb wrote:I can't see the ability. All I see on the card is quad attack. Oh, and also, the Rodian Raider is 10pts and has triple attack, just for another comparison. Photobuckets being weird ... fixed .... Yep, that's better. I like Reclusive Species a lot, I think it adds a nice flair to something without being unique. Some species just aren't around or like other beings, a great idea. I think it would be great if it was called Reclusive Species X where X is the number of pieces you can have. Maybe Certain CEs could ignore that restriction, I think it adds a nice flair to species specific "sub-factions," as well as Xenophobic Hunter Abilites that could key off specifically Reclusive Species instead of just "Rodian Hunter." When you guys mentioned having a bunch of these guys hitting me in a game and I flashed to all those Rodian Brutes I got hit by I started thinking ... Yes, there's the possibility of abuse here ... could make him unique, but I don't want that ... how to make him unique/not unique ... well, they're rare in the galaxy ... reclusive more than anyhing .... The Reclusive idea could be used in some interesting ways ... not sure where I want to take this .... Thanks for the comments! 
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Surf, buddy, I'm sorry, but--"Reclusive Species" or not--Quadruple Attack on a Fringe non-Unique costing less than 10 is just completely abusive.
Consider: There are only a handful of pieces with Quadruple Attack. Only 4 of them are non-Unique. Of those, 2 are huge, and 1 is a Savage/Melee piece. That leaves only one piece for comparison.
The Clone Trooper with Repeating Blaster costs 23. How does he compare to your guy?
*Hit Points are 20 rather than 10 (these days, that difference virtually doesn't matter, so shouldn't impact the cost significantly)
*Defense is the same. Attack is 4 points higher. That should probably impact the cost by 2-3.
*Damage is 20 rather than 10. This is the most interesting angle, so I'll address it below. In this case, I would argue that a character with 10 damage should actually be priced HIGHER than one with 20 damage.
*Faction is Fringe, which means that it should be priced higher than the identical character in another faction.
*Order 66 vs Reclusive Species? Makes my head hurt, but I don't see much of a price difference here.
So, damage aside, I don't think the cost should be especially different from the CTwRB: low/mid-20s. Honestly, with a piece like this, I would price it AT LEAST at 21, to avoid Reserves/Reinforcements.
Now, let's address damage. Although 10 damage is, on the whole, worse than 20 damage, for a piece relying on multiple attacks, 10 damage allows easy access to Twin Attack, which means this guy can have up to 80 attacks. With the right support, he can easily dish out 20-30 damage per attack, while also having Evade and/or Greater Mobile Attack.
Kill-able with a single hit? Sure, but only AFTER he dishes out 200+ damage.
Yes, he can only do that with the right support, but the right support is easy to access (and not entirely expensive).
You want to balance him? Forget Reclusive Species; give him Single-Shot Blaster (introduced in S&V). Even with that, I would probably price him in the neighborhood of 15-20 based on sheer potential damage output.
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This is a very interesting discussion. I myself have to agree with qewk. This piece is waaaayyy undercosted. While the "Reclusive Species" is a Very Cool SA, the Quad attack and possible damage output screams higher cost. I gotta agree with the no less than 21 start cost. Very cool new set of cards surf.  Love the new Assassin custom.  Oh ya, thanks for the rule clarification kobayashimaru.  Well then I guess a Force Power with an added 4 space movement would work well with that her card. 
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@surf, neat species! Its generated heaps of discussion!  Ah, I think maybe some negative SAs or a CE (with a lame or bad effect) would balance the Morseerian shooter... Other than that, he's a non-unique glass cannon which gives a triple (or quadruple) threat, probably best used on one side of a map or to guard/hide behind an over-ridden door. Giving it a CE like "This piece, and other Mercs cannot benefit from Cover" would, I think, even this piece out if 9pts is non negotiable. Maybe a negative SA like Heavy Weapon or Misfire (if this character rolls a natural 1, it is defeated, save 11) would be fun for this piece. Do they work in swarms? Maybe a neg. CE could be that followers must be within 6... Wook wasnt real helpful with them though. EDIT: Great work Surf! Its a ready-to-play piece now! Thanks for sharing, and I think thats officially the first "community + surf" made, collaborative custom haha NB: Not to worry about being ahead or behind with your custom endeavors: "A wizard is NEVER late or early... he arrives precisely when he means to." Gandalf
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Wow, nice additions surf. Thanks for the Hutt Jedi  , I find the addition of Vaapad Style rather interesting . I am having a little trouble understanding the Xenophobic ability, why would your allies want to avoid having extra damage? I also love the Waitress, it would be a good piece for blocking vital pathways. Cheers
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Bob Chizo wrote:Wow, nice additions surf. Thanks for the Hutt Jedi , I find the addition of Vaapad Style rather interesting . I am having a little trouble understanding the Xenophobic ability, why would your allies want to avoid having extra damage? I also love the Waitress, it would be a good piece for blocking vital pathways. Cheers Vaapad came from Beldorion, the Hutt Jedi. Xenophobic came from the idea that the Ssi-Ruu hated all other species (or word to that effect) and would attack any other species ... even "allies." so the SA reads Xenophobic (+4 when attacking non X characters within 6 squares; allied characters may avoid this with a save of 6.) ... X = Ssi-Ruu in this instance ... should have changed the generic (for future use) X to Ssi-Ruu .... allies should be able to avoid a hit with a 6. Blocking waitresses .... hmm ... now There's a vision @ all the other people in on the Morseerian discussion ... I hear you all ... Gwek loves to dissect these things down to the midi-chlorians, which we discussed in the past that he looks at these things waaaay deeper than I do whereas I make 10 of these cards a week .... I don't overthink them or spend as much time as Gwek in analyzing them Having said that, I don't know anybody who Deliberatly looks to create broken pieces. I created Reclusive Species (No more than two members of this species may ever be in the same squad.) to try to limit the number of Morseerian Fringers you can bring in ... I also hear the idea that CE's could make this guy into a monster so .... I've been playing around with the general idea of how to limit CE's with something that makes sense other than saying "cannot use CE's." I wanted it to make sense .... here's what I came up with .... Mistrustful (This character may not be affected by other species Commander Effects.) He Could still be affected by another, future Morseerian's CE, but that's it. Thoughts and/or Comments?
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Without CEs, he'd be fair even with 8 points without reclusive species. It was just commander effects I was worried about, but now his cost can be lowered because of that. If you give him both of those effects, he'd be about 6-7 points.
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MaliciousCrumb wrote:Without CEs, he'd be fair even with 8 points without reclusive species. It was just commander effects I was worried about, but now his cost can be lowered because of that. If you give him both of those effects, he'd be about 6-7 points. so .... how does this look? My new, improved Morseerian Fringer I seem to have fallen behind and vacations almost over .... Hmmmmmm
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That's quite fair, in my opinion.
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Oh wow, cool idea surf, I like it. Very creative. I  the pic you used for this guy, very cool!
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surf_rider56 wrote: Xenophobic came from the idea that the Ssi-Ruu hated all other species (or word to that effect) and would attack any other species ... even "allies." so the SA reads
Xenophobic (+4 when attacking non X characters within 6 squares; allied characters may avoid this with a save of 6.) ... X = Ssi-Ruu in this instance ... should have changed the generic (for future use) X to Ssi-Ruu .... allies should be able to avoid a hit with a 6. I understand the idea behind the ability (it could also work on a Yevethan character), but what I don't get is why the Ssi-Ruu would be attacking its own allies.  Please help me understand this, because otherwise it is a great character.
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Maybe another Morseerian here. Possibly a mechanic?
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Bob Chizo wrote:surf_rider56 wrote: Xenophobic came from the idea that the Ssi-Ruu hated all other species (or word to that effect) and would attack any other species ... even "allies." so the SA reads
Xenophobic (+4 when attacking non X characters within 6 squares; allied characters may avoid this with a save of 6.) ... X = Ssi-Ruu in this instance ... should have changed the generic (for future use) X to Ssi-Ruu .... allies should be able to avoid a hit with a 6. I understand the idea behind the ability (it could also work on a Yevethan character), but what I don't get is why the Ssi-Ruu would be attacking its own allies. Please help me understand this, because otherwise it is a great character. Xenophob's would attack Anything not of their race/species; so I don't see why they wouldn't be picky about who they attacked, friend or foe. I gave their allies a save of 6 ... most rolls you should avoid being shot at Maybe I should have added something about shooting at the closest being that was their species .... The Yevethan would be a good race too ... I just made them to particularly hate the Vong ..... The Morseerian pic; I've seen it and while its a nice pic, I have another in mind ... I'll probably use it down the road. @ Crumb & Squelch. Glad you liked it. The long discussion made me think on the piece long and hard ... course the bad news is I've pushed back the next group a day or so 
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surf_rider56 wrote:@ Crumb & Squelch. Glad you liked it. The long discussion made me think on the piece long and hard ... course the bad news is I've pushed back the next group a day or so It's all good dude. Give's me time to catch up on reading all your cards.  I got a LOT of catching up to do. 
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Is this guy a picture or a miniature? If he is a miniature, what/who is he?
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Bob Chizo wrote:Is this guy a picture or a miniature? If he is a miniature, what/who is he? Sorry, I've been gone for a week; grandkid #4 was just born and I had Grandpa things to attend to He is indeed a mini; that's the good news. Bad news is he's a metal miniature, Iron Kingdoms #81026 Gajan Vasco, Ordic Adventurer .... to be exact and of course he comes unpainted. But its such a dang good pic how could I NOT use it? If things settle down (I also started teaching this week) I may finally get to some stuff I've had floating around for awhile in the next few days .......
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Play tested a game of Death Troopers on the Mustafar Map. When we sat down we realized we needed a direct goal. So we added an astromech. The winner is the player who can retrieve the astromech and take it back to the starting square. However the astromech reduces speed to 6, and must be adjacent to the player to move, Han Carbo style. We started in the Landing Area and placed the droid in the Security Post. You can burn through the zombies quickly but we found out they are way too powerful to keep the fun in it. You can get swarmed by 3 and be dead in 1 turn  The Black Wing virus is too powerful for this game scenario so we substituted the +60 damaged for the characters printed damage e.g. +10, +20, for the relevant zombie character. To keep the pressure on we changed it so each time a door is opened, regardless of if it has already been opened, the player rolls a dice to place zombies in that room, and Zombies must always move towards the nearest Unique character. That was a major oversight lol The Zombie Sith Lord should have something else to it to make it DEAD scary, lol. Sort of like the Witch or Tank from Left4Dead. Twin/double/ melee reach 2. Maybe even a CE to aid all current Zombies. Not sure what but there was not enough fear factor to justify him sadly. We ended up putting 3 of them down on a roll of 12. We also felt a Dynamic duo aids the game with each player has 2 characters, that way you can use CE and Batteries etc. All in all it was a fun quick game! Gaming scenario 3.0 2 players or more. 1 D20 & 1 D12 Ravaged Base map or any other segmented map, small enclosed spaces are best for this. Each Player picks 2 unique characters for their team. Agree on a starting point and place the Astromech droid in a difficult to reach portion of the map. Rules for the astromech. The winner is the player who can retrieve the astromech and take it back to the starting square. However the astromech reduces speed to 6, and must be adjacent to a Unique player to move. Game and rules. Each player has their 2 activations as per normal. Zombie enemies must always move towards the nearest unique character. Every time a player opens a door to a room or corridor regardless of whether Zombies have already been revealed in that area, the other player rolls the D12/D20, what ever the roll is the other player places/reveals that amount of Zombies in that room/corridor. Zombie Wookies are placed for each roll of 5 on the dice. Example - on a roll of 10, 8 Zombie Stormtroopers and 2 Zombie Wookies are placed. On a natural 12/20 depending on the dice of choice, place 3 Zombie Sith Lords. When first being placed/revealed, the Zombie enemies can not be placed closer than 4 squares away from the Unique character. If the dice roll is greater than the space availible, the room/corridor is filled up to the 4 sqaure distance from the Unique character. So the activations are as follows Player 1 moves/activates their characters Player 2 moves/activates any Zombies in play Player 2 moves/activates their characters Player 1 moves/activates any Zombies in play
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Help !!! The Zombies are taking over the Thread again .... May the Force Be With Us ........
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lol yep soz, I should shift it to its own thread.
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