This I actually don't think was significant. V6 had 22 significant new abilities (not counting new identifiers or new versions of existing abilities like Synergy) and 2 new force powers; V7 had 26 significant new abilities and 7 new force powers; V5 had 34 significant new special abilities and 7 new force powers.

The other 2 issues you mentioned were huge. Having you specifically on board to help with organization has been incredibly helpful with V7 and onward, and will help prevent missing the adjustments like Daala losing rapport. Smaller sets will hopefully help with the lack of playtests, since that was a big problem here (the Daala combos we're talking about weren't ever even tested or considered by anyone).

Vehicle was complicated mostly because it was a brand new mechanic that we were introducing. Outside of that, though, I think the new abilities were fairly simple. Hand Signals is probably the next most complicated new ability; maybe Lightsaber Trainer (although it's more wordy that complex, what it does is fairly straightforward). Most other things are either variations on existing mechanics (Overload is Tarpals' CE, Brainwashed is a combination of Mercenary and half of Savage, Blast Bug is just unpreventable Spit Poison that can hit Droids, etc.) or fairly straightforward bonuses (if-then statements mostly).

Obviously there were some problems (mostly a lack of playtesting in my opinion), but I don't think that number or complexity of abilities is a big one in this set.

That would be very useful if the Zyg were useful on its own, and not just as a Slave Driver. But he isn't, so this would be a pretty useless ability.

I was joking. We have been discussing whether the current Slave Driver is broken (range 6, Replaces attacks, move double speed). What I posted above is much stronger: rangeless, doesn't replace attacks, and grants a turn instead of just moving.

It says "take a turn" not "activate", so it's the language of Pawn of the Dark Side instead of Ki-Adi's CE. "Even if it has already activated this round" would be in the glossary. But the joke clearly failed because it had to be explained. Oh well.

Quick report - will fill in details later.

Daala Raxus (me) vs classic Yodabuck (Jason K)

We playtested with Daala LOSING rapport, and the Slaver replacing turn. Not insignificant. I lost 4 troopers and the Zygerrians were much harder to use.

Played on Theed.

I locked up tight (people seem to keep forgetting doors exist and can be locked).

End round 1 I deep strike with 2 Raxus and kill Lobot and put 40 on Panaka.

I lose init, he kills a trooper, I roll a 1 to not kill Panaka. (This is huge)

He gallops to kill my 2 troopers.

He advances further with r2, Anakin and Yodabuck. I bring my Czerka up, kill his R2, and unload on Yoda. I lose init again, he gallops and kills 3 troopers and my czerka. I kill yodabuck.

This game was no fun. I just said I'll lock and take the 2 point win, as opposed to lock, deep strike kill, lock.

He did still have momaw, which was a threat, so I was being extra safe.



So - Daala is CLEARLY an issue. Even nerfed she still owns. But I think we can tweak her and keep her mostly the same. (No rapport, no +10)

The slaver is just plain ridiculous. We gave him a pretty hard nerf, and he still absolutely is nuts. He needs to be DRAMATICALLY changed, if not simply banned.

I think it needs to be this:

Touch instead of range 6. Move speed instead of double speed. Lower cost only (can whip each other) and Fringe only.

ALL of the above or simply ban IMO

Daala without the Zygerrian is still very good. Charging still gives them great movement, you can put Veers in and give them Accurate so they don't have to get down there point blank and shoot.

There are plenty of examples in this thread of instances where Daala is used without the Zyg, or the Zyg is not necessary.

Tim suggested
lose rapport
lose +10 on charging.

That'll tweak her top end and reduce the amount of troopers possible, its probably the weakest tweak you can get away with.

This is consistent with data from Flying Arrow and some of the Kiwi's who have questioned whether the issue is just Daala because in some game the zyg just isn't needed.

I think its safe to say its both now. People have suggested removing prideful but she needs that to compete as a Thrawn competitor but her output is clearly too high.

Now the snows top out at a very tough 40 dmg (80 with czerka) but have to really swarm. Luckily, LINs shore up their weakest match up so its certainly a top tier squad in the right hands.

That is a mild reduction in her potency and you can still spam 5 point snows that can run 12 and do 40 (possible twin).


so this. He is still extremely potent, especially in Talon squads here he can whip decent damage himself and ewok squads where he can whip a glider for a 18 square strafe.

Slave Driver (replaces attacks; touch; one non-unique fringe that costs less than this character may move up to its speed)

18 square door bombs, 18 square swappers, 18 square gran bombs.
Loads of uses, not so spammy. Squads will want one most of the time which is what it should be. There are options to swarm if you can get their whips to do more damage which a lot of factions can do.

Daala on her own needs fixing, see above.

The Zyg on its own needs fixing. No matter what we do to Daala, if the Zyg isn't fixed it ends up being the same game Tim posted with slightly less troopers. Its a turtle squad that deepstrikes you.

Naboo swarms that are already a nasty squad type the also uses it as will Poggle bombs swarms etc. I don't need to see games to verify this and, really, at this stage i don't care. There is no reason for a 8 point fringe piece to start defining meta's

It needs to be fringe to prevent these things, and the range has to come down.

I can easily find uses for a piece that moves fringe fodder an extra 6 spaces a round and it take all the zygs potential brokenness away.

Its the kind of figure that without proper power adjustment hampers future design.

I agree with this. Zyg should only affect Fringe. Daala may be a bigger problem, but if Daala weren't here we would probably all be complaining about Poggle Bombs and Naboo Troopers being shot across the board. I don't know for sure that with Zygerrians they're broken, but I don't want to see another 17 pages debating it. They're already Tier 1 and don't need a big movement breaker on top of that.

In addition to Fringe only, I think Zygerrians should affect either Attack 0 only or maximum cost 4. If it's all Fringe of cost 8 and under, then future designers have to constantly make sure that Cloud Car Pilots, Tusken Raider Snipers, Ugnaught Droid Destroyers, etc. don't get too powerful. There probably isn't any big issue right now with fringe under 8, but there could easily accidentally be one in the future. Charging Fire is a big deal. A Charging grunt after moving 12 is a huge deal.