I've been playing a bit with variations on this squad:

--This deal's getting worse all the time--
27 Lobot
21 Admiral Yularen
20 Captain Tarpals
16 Chiss Captain
16 Lando Calrissian
12 Bespin Guard Captain
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
16 Zygerrian Slaver x2
60 Bespin Security Guard x10
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(200pts. 20 activations)

As is, slave driver is ridiculous with Tarpals. You don't even need to outactivate, since a Bespin Guard can be whipped 24 squares and then attack in the same phase. It's not nearly as powerful as a Daala squad, but it would be interesting to see how it fares against the "counter" squads that can't handle Daala.

Sounds good. Especially dropping from double speed to speed. With touch, Tarpals would let one drive 2 different people but not the same person twice, and with lower-cost instead of equal, a Zyg couldn't drive a second Zygerrian.

Just played twice with this squad. It uses two proposed 'fixes': remove Daala's Rapport. Assume Zygerrians only work for Fringe. (Hence none are included.)

--Daala no Zygerrian no Rapport--
27 Admiral Daala
20 Admiral Piett
16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon
16 Grand Admiral Rulf Yage
13 Czerka Scientist
13 Snowtrooper Commander
12 LIN Demolitionmech
11 Snowtrooper Officer
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
7 Bothan Saboteur
32 Snowtrooper x8
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(189pts. 21 activations)

I think I'd go so far as to say those two fixes are sufficient for the Daala squads. I think this squad (or one similar to it) will still wind up being Tier 1, but both games were real games... not auto-wins. Dropping Rapport is huge - I hadn't really thought about it because it's just 1 point, right? But multiplied by 20 it's a really big deal. At this point, I don't think Charging+10 even needs to be changed as long as there are no Zygerrians with Daala at all.

Game 1: Versus HK-47, Sniper/Spotter, Cad Bane BH.

A placement error left HK-47 dead early. 3 straight successful shields rolls killed the spotter and the mouse droid in front of it pretty quick. So all that was in favor of the Imperials, but the Seps were still 2 successful saves away from getting an amazing Furious Assualt from Bane that might have ended up winning them the game. It would have wiped out basically all of the Imperials' firepower. Of course, that firepower wouldn't have been bunched up in the first place, though, except that they were all trying to chip away at Bane and his hostage shields, and the odds were in their favor to be successful that round. Point is - the game was a real game and it could have gone either way with slightly different strategy and/or better rolls. The opposing squad probably wasn't optimized to be a Tier 1 squad, but with the spotter and Cad BH it was well-suited to face a Daala squad.


Game 2: Versus Thon Song

Thon Song won. Two slight errors had a pretty big impact. Placement error got the Czerka killed with a Splash before Twin was ever used. Both Snowtrooper commanders took the point on an approach in an attempt to reach Bastila. (They were the only ones close enough to reach her.) But Atton stepped out and nailed both of them. In the end, Thon was down to 10hp with like 9 force points because he couldn't spend them to defend anyway due to the bubble. ABM was on long enough to reduce the damage that Thon was taking so that he stayed alive. The bubble helped, but Thon kept moving so that the troopers had to leave the bubble for shots. The biggest error for the Imperials, though, was probably going on offense in the first place. Holing up in gambit and forcing the OR to approach would have probably worked better. If the Imperials storm gambit and make someone come into the room to reach the Czerka, then they should win this matchup at least 75% of the time. But again, the point is that it was a real game.

In either of these games, if Rapport were still working, 4 more troopers juiced up with all the commanders would have made the games clearly one-sided.

I'd say if you're going to keep double speed, it needs to be reduced down to a range of touch and/or have some sort of penalty.

Another possible penalty idea: Place a "Whipped" token on this character. For each token, characters are -4 attack, -4 defense, and -4 on saves. This token is removed at the end of the next round.

Thanks for doing that testing! I do think that I'd try and squeeze more Troopers into a build - maybe at the expense of GARY and Piett, the Czerka, and the Bothan Saboteur - if I did that, I might include Needa though. But maybe that's a play style thing - I'd rather have more Trooopers and not freak out about losing them. Eight isn't enough for my liking. But does seem like dropping rapport is enough to make a big difference - it's hard to drop 18 troopers if you don't have a mass killer, but 12-15 is a lot more manageable for some squads.

I initially had a Stormtrooper on Repulsor Sled in there for a deep strike option instead of the Czerka, and he needs Piett/GARY. In the second matchup (Thon Song), Pellaeon dropped GARY to pick up the Repulsor Sled. But you're right, this build would be better without GARY/Piett and with more troopers. Then take Needa with an option for Tarkin/Ozzel.

That's one of the things that I noticed with the lack of Rapport and no Zygerrian. You can still do a pretty incredible 24-square deep strike with the Repulsor Sled, but you have to really build for it and it costs a lot more when you lose him. To focus on deep strike, you'd probably want to abandon Snowtroopers altogether and go with Elite Scouts. That way you can drop the Snowtrooper commanders to make room for some combination of GARY/Piett/Imperial Officer/Needa. You know - all the commanders that work well with the deep strike Repulsor Sled, and that aren't absolutely necessary for a Snowtrooper build. So you have to choose either overwhelming firepower or superior deep strike. (It's up to 110 damage for the Repulsor if you also use the Stormtrooper Commander.)

Oh yeah - and without the Zygerrian I would no longer consider including the Bothan.

(Edit: You are so right. I already thought that GARY/Piett weren't necessary for Snowtroopers but then I dropped the deep strike at the last minute without also removing GARY/Piett. Without them, it frees up points for a lot more troopers. Enough that this playtest might not have proved anything. Still - played Star Wars Minis. Had fun.)

Jason wins.

Both his semi finals and finals match opponents conceded. The Zygerrians cannot beat beat by those squads.

ask and you shall receive.....


--F?&/'n Zygerrians--
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
27 Lobot
19 Ewok Chieftain
16 Chief Chirpa
15 Jabba, Crime Lord
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
8 Zygerrian Slaver
7 Ewok Hang Glider
48 Ewok x16
3 Mouse Droid
3 Rodian Brute
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(200pts. 28 activations)

+1

It's a little ironic--Daala was banned because everyone was afraid that she would make the tournament unfair, only for the real problem (the Zygerrians) to be discovered and dominate the tournament.
If anything, some might say that this was a better playtest than letting Daala squads in.

Would this work as a solution to the Slave Driver issue?:
Slave Driver (Replaces attacks: range 6; one living non-Unique Fringe character with a printer cost equal to or less than half of this character's may immediately move up to its speed)

It still can affect Ewoks, but now they can only move six squares, rather than eight. And it won't work on Zygerrians or any other pieces more expensive that four points, either, which gives it a rather limited and specific pool of beneficiaries.


EDIT: Ninja'd.