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Are activations out of control? Options
Darth_Jim
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 12:54:54 PM
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I can't speak to other games, (It has been years since I played Magic) but just having the meta pieces in this game doesn't get you wins. I had Thrawn for a long time but didn't understand the true power of the swap until I read BillIV's article. Commando Luke was collecting dust in my collection until I saw Deri at GenCon 2 years ago utilize him in ways I hadn't imagined. Lots of discoveries were made in playtesting and making mistakes.

I have been thinking about this for awhile, but in the 6 years I've been playing I can't remember a single instance where a player won because he had pieces I didn't. Good matchups, good luck, my dumb mistakes, a better opponent...yup, plenty of times. Never do I recall a player 'buying' a win against me.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 1:52:33 PM
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CC-23478 wrote:
Sorta off topic, but I noticed that as well arrow, some rares are now dirt cheap but some uncommons are skyrocketing......when you pay more for a useless clone trooper than you do for a decent wedge something is wrong with the game


Nothing wrong with the game - some people want literal armies of clones/troopers/etc. Pretty much nobody needs more than one Wedge. Supply and demand.
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 1:52:57 PM
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Quote:
I can't speak to other games, (It has been years since I played Magic) but just having the meta pieces in this game doesn't get you wins.


There are plenty of powerful attackers and meta pieces for some factions (eg Old Republic, Sith, and Vong) in the v-sets, without needing much outlay at all. I think it's cool how players with smaller collections can still compete. Where I see newer players erring in my playgroup is not running any door control, or any tech pieces whatsoever.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 1:59:28 PM
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When I first started playing I was turned off by the 'buy a win' sort of thing. That was when I literally had about 50 pieces. Running into a Rebel push squad or Rieekan or super-stealth when you have zero synergy, no door control, etc. isn't fun. But even then, you could get to a respectable squad for $20 or so.

Now I could run most of the tier 1 squads if I wanted. (Minus the 20 mouse droids - only 6 over here.) With the Vsets and the drop in ebay prices, and the fact that many (MANY) of the powerful pieces are rares instead of very-rares, $20 could get to tier 1 pretty easily in some factions.
Echo24
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:37:40 AM
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There is always the "buying a win" factor in collectible games. If I have a collection that I've built over years and spent more money than I care to think about on and you just spent $15 on a couple of boosters at Target and we play, yes, the fact that I've spent more time/money on my collection will certainly affect the outcome of the game.

However, this game is much, MUCH better about this than many others. As has been pointed out, the investment to build a tier 1 squad is $20-$30. That's not an unreasonable minimum investment by any means.
Mando
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:45:20 AM
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There is an effective way of dealing with swarms of mouse droids other than yobuck and Lancer. People often forget about Force burst. Everything within 6 squares takes 10 dmg. Unfortunately the only minis with Force Busrt are Vader from RotS and Agen Kolar,JM from RotS. Both factions can swap them in to destroy mice. They may not be the best minis in the world, but Force Burst is a really nice power to counter swarms. And force Burst is also a handy way to deal with Camaasi Noble/Imp Dignitary walls.
CC-23478
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 1:18:43 PM
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Location: the closest battle
Mando wrote:
There is an effective way of dealing with swarms of mouse droids other than yobuck and Lancer. People often forget about Force burst. Everything within 6 squares takes 10 dmg. Unfortunately the only minis with Force Busrt are Vader from RotS and Agen Kolar,JM from RotS. Both factions can swap them in to destroy mice. They may not be the best minis in the world, but Force Burst is a really nice power to counter swarms. And force Burst is also a handy way to deal with Camaasi Noble/Imp Dignitary walls.


Yeah.......I took out 22 battle droids once in a theme battle with agen
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:35:39 AM
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Mando wrote:
There is an effective way of dealing with swarms of mouse droids other than yobuck and Lancer. People often forget about Force burst. Everything within 6 squares takes 10 dmg. Unfortunately the only minis with Force Busrt are Vader from RotS and Agen Kolar,JM from RotS. Both factions can swap them in to destroy mice. They may not be the best minis in the world, but Force Burst is a really nice power to counter swarms. And force Burst is also a handy way to deal with Camaasi Noble/Imp Dignitary walls.


Hehe, we've been talking about this specific ability :)
CC-23478
Posted: Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:40:31 AM
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billiv15 wrote:
Mando wrote:
There is an effective way of dealing with swarms of mouse droids other than yobuck and Lancer. People often forget about Force burst. Everything within 6 squares takes 10 dmg. Unfortunately the only minis with Force Busrt are Vader from RotS and Agen Kolar,JM from RotS. Both factions can swap them in to destroy mice. They may not be the best minis in the world, but Force Burst is a really nice power to counter swarms. And force Burst is also a handy way to deal with Camaasi Noble/Imp Dignitary walls.


Hehe, we've been talking about this specific ability :)


Awesome
Mando
Posted: Thursday, September 1, 2011 2:07:01 AM
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billiv15 wrote:
Mando wrote:
There is an effective way of dealing with swarms of mouse droids other than yobuck and Lancer. People often forget about Force burst. Everything within 6 squares takes 10 dmg. Unfortunately the only minis with Force Busrt are Vader from RotS and Agen Kolar,JM from RotS. Both factions can swap them in to destroy mice. They may not be the best minis in the world, but Force Burst is a really nice power to counter swarms. And force Burst is also a handy way to deal with Camaasi Noble/Imp Dignitary walls.


Hehe, we've been talking about this specific ability :)


You sir, have just made my day! I'm really looking forward to seeing more Force Burst in future sets.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 1, 2011 4:37:23 AM
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Yes, more Force Burst please.

Also...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ionize

Force Power:

Ionize 1: Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 6, small non-living with printed Damage of 0 only; target is considered activated.

Ionize 2: Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6, non-living only; 10 damage. Each player may select one Droid. All non-selected Droids within 6 squares of the target take 10 damage.

Ionize 3
: Force 3, replaces turn: range 6, non-living only; 30 damage. All non-living characters within 6 squares of the target take 10 damage. Damaged characters are considered activated, save 11. Huge and larger characters ignore the non-damaging effect.

Ionize 4: Force 4, replaces turn: range 6, non-living only; 40 damage. All other non-living characters within 6 squares of the target take 10 damage. Damaged characters are considered activated, save 16. Huge and larger characters ignore the non-damaging effect.

(cross-posted from the suggestions thread)
greentime
Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2011 12:12:46 PM
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Over time, my opinion in this has shifted a little bit. To me the #1 problem is the mouse droid mini itself. I would support any number of errata to it, including but not limited to increasing its cost, lowering its defense, making it an optional target (so you can shoot past it). allowing characters to move through or even force them out of their squares, and making it illegal to bring in via reinforcements. The mouse droid is so good, and makes the game so difficult and annoying in large amounts (because you can't get anywhere and can't shoot anything else) that it boosts the already significant power of outactivating.

Solo Charge with 10 mouse droids can be infuriating to play against without Yobuck or Lancer (and they won't bring that in against Yobuck or Lancer, but that's a different matter) because you end up having to kill at least five or six of them just to get at the characters you need to kill. Late in the game they can practically guarantee a win as I have seen many times by keeping Han or Ganner safe while they plink away at the last enemy or two. If the mouse droid was more expensive or not as good, what does Solo Charge bring in? Six brutes? The quality gap is enormous.

Aside of the mouse droid, more good pieces and squads that do not need or use activation control (like Ian's championship OR squad, or any of the other really good OR, Sith, and Vong squads that are possible now) is the best answer. When most of the best squads in the game don't use activation control, I'll be very happy about the meta. We're a good part of the way there already.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:05:46 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
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greentime wrote:
Over time, my opinion in this has shifted a little bit. To me the #1 problem is the mouse droid mini itself. I would support any number of errata to it, including but not limited to increasing its cost, lowering its defense, making it an optional target (so you can shoot past it). allowing characters to move through or even force them out of their squares, and making it illegal to bring in via reinforcements. The mouse droid is so good, and makes the game so difficult and annoying in large amounts (because you can't get anywhere and can't shoot anything else) that it boosts the already significant power of outactivating.

Solo Charge with 10 mouse droids can be infuriating to play against without Yobuck or Lancer (and they won't bring that in against Yobuck or Lancer, but that's a different matter) because you end up having to kill at least five or six of them just to get at the characters you need to kill. Late in the game they can practically guarantee a win as I have seen many times by keeping Han or Ganner safe while they plink away at the last enemy or two. If the mouse droid was more expensive or not as good, what does Solo Charge bring in? Six brutes? The quality gap is enormous.

Aside of the mouse droid, more good pieces and squads that do not need or use activation control (like Ian's championship OR squad, or any of the other really good OR, Sith, and Vong squads that are possible now) is the best answer. When most of the best squads in the game don't use activation control, I'll be very happy about the meta. We're a good part of the way there already.


I think the biggest thing for Mouse Droids is that you should be able to shoot past them. They should in fact have a high defense so that they can actually do their supposed job without dying immediately: propagating CEs. But then swarms of them slow the game down and make it less fun.

I would 'errata' the Mouse Droid the way SWCCG did things. Not an actual errata - just make a big-time anti-Mouse piece that makes it a losing strategy to bring in tons of them.


Snivvian Gun Dealer

Cost 3
Hit Points: 10
Defense: 10
Attack: 0
Damage: 10

SA:
Shooting Advice (Small Droid enemies with printed damage of 0 gain Very Small (Does not block movement or provide cover. Enemies may choose to not count this character as the nearest enemy).)
Competition (May not be in a squad with more than one other character of the same name as this character.)

"In a firefight, pay attention to the guys with guns."
http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/7478/snivvian-gun-dealer



I'd still like to see more low-cost options so there is more variability in squad filler. Good to see Salacious Crumb as another option. This guy would be a 3-point shooter in addition to an anti-Mouse piece.
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