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One last thing about the Storm Commandos... When choosing reinforcements don't overlook that value of an Aqualish Tech can add with Rangefinder to boost them up to +14.
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What Storm Commando build are you thinking of, where there are only two Storm Commandos? Most of the builds I've seen have three in the base squad (like http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/109408/wier-not-gonna-take-it- or http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/113473/double-bubble), and still have enough room for the double bubble. Weir + 3 Storm Commandos is quite a bit cheaper than Atris + 3 Echanis, so there's more room for support. I'm just interested in what the best Storm Commando build is, I think they're very viable now.
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Well I guess it depends on what you throw into the mix, I like Ozzel over Gha... Here is my squad from this year's WAMPA Stompa. http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/108523/general-veeirdnessCertain sacrifices could be made to get Pellaeon in there but so much attention is being directed at foiling a single OR piece, that I'll take my chances.
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If there wasn't a tier 1 Sith squad before, there's probably one now with Zannah.
Personally I think chances of seeing Pellaeon in squads and Bastila suppressing commander effects keeps things very interesting since it becomes difficult to nail down one squad that can consistently beat anything.
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Big Sith did well last year. Made top 4 at MI regionals and at K-town challenge
New Revan
Exar
Bandon
Filler
Not sure if either Zannah or Maul can figure into a squad type that will do as well but it is worth considering.
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I would think that Atton would fit into any top tier Sith squad now.
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DARPH NADER wrote:I maybe a bit biased here but I do prefer the Storm Commandos against most builds. The point TheHutts made about them being luck dependent is true but that can also be said of the 80/20 Vaapad lure of Mace LoTLS.
Mace may only have a 20% percent chance to crit with each attack, but remember, since he has GMA and triple his chances of getting at least 1 crit when he's attacking 3 times increase to nearly 35%. So Mace is already reliable enough to get at least 60 dmg on a character (after moving himself, mind you), but if he crits you're most likely looking at a damage output of 120, and that's with just one crit. It's definitely something to keep in mind, whether you're the guy running or the guy facing him.
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FlyingArrow wrote:I would think that Atton would fit into any top tier Sith squad now. Absolutely agree, he has to be in there.
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@ Hinkbert... All is true regarding Windu and furthermore we have seen first hand what a Chagrian MC can do to his output potential. However the point is that regardless of the damage potential, the element of chance is still the key in these examples.
As far as Pellaeon goes... He has to be in there, as insurance/foil against the most broken piece in the game today. I really wish there would have been a reconsideration, as to the depth of ABM's scope in this year's floor rules. Don't get me wrong here, the OR definitely needed this facelift to be competitive. However the objective IMHO could have been met just as easily by having ABM last only till the end of the round.
Great dialogue!
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Hinkbert wrote:...but if he crits you're most likely looking at a damage output of 120, and that's with just one crit. It's definitely something to keep in mind, whether you're the guy running or the guy facing him. Darph Nader and I just discussed this briefly and I'd like to note that the thread is regarding squads. I'm not saying this because there should be a change in the tone of these discussions. I say this because it's easy to focus too much on a single, capitol piece because he's a BAMF or a SSMing, bubble filled she-devil. In this case you had better activate Mace last, because as soon as Mace sticks his neck out, there's going to be a hailstorm of blaster bolts. I did it the other day with the Storm Commandos. At the end of the round, a Rodian Brute does an end around the central wall in the Rancor Pen (west to east). Thrawn swaps in a Commando...dead Rex. Imperial Officer spins...damage to Mace. Next round the Commando activates...nearly dead Mace. Mace runs up, triples and doesn't crit once. I save like a champ with my shields...down to 10 hp. Imperial Officer spins...dead Mace. It's all in the dice. A squad that can soak up some damage and put out a high number of attacks is key. Hit him enough times and even GOWK goes down. I know that's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, but there it is. Eventually SSM will fail and Zannah will run out of Force Points. You had better hope that the other figures you're running with her back her up before that happens. And for the love of Bloo, don't let me kill your door control. I'm not above the lockout strategy when Force FX lightsabers are up for grabs. /rant
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DARPH NADER wrote:Well I guess it depends on what you throw into the mix, I like Ozzel over Gha... Here is my squad from this year's WAMPA Stompa. http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/108523/general-veeirdnessCertain sacrifices could be made to get Pellaeon in there but so much attention is being directed at foiling a single OR piece, that I'll take my chances. Pellaeon is at his finest against OR, but he's also great against SSM, Levitation, Force Push, Repulse, Lightning, Unleash the Force, Lightsaber Block, Deflect, Force Defense and rerolls, just to name a few. Remember when I yelled out at Wampa Stompa that Salacious Crumb had just killed Mace? He was in Pellaeon's Ysalimiri Bubble at the time. I agree that playing him is problematic and fitting him into squads at times is difficult, though. I don't think Imperials have all of the answers in today's meta. However, IF and WHEN I play Imperials, he's as much of a staple as R2 is in Republic builds.
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3 Storm Commandos? 3? Unless custom Storm Commandos are allowed, I would have to run 1 and like it.
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What's really wizard, is bringing six of them into an Epic 500 ;-)
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Darth_Jim wrote:Remember when I yelled out at Wampa Stompa that Salacious Crumb had just killed Mace? I do indeed recall the annoucement of that delightful moment. Poor Windu, he didn't fair too well that day. ;-)
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Darth_Jim wrote:DARPH NADER wrote:Well I guess it depends on what you throw into the mix, I like Ozzel over Gha... Here is my squad from this year's WAMPA Stompa. http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/108523/general-veeirdnessCertain sacrifices could be made to get Pellaeon in there but so much attention is being directed at foiling a single OR piece, that I'll take my chances. Pellaeon is at his finest against OR, but he's also great against SSM, Levitation, Force Push, Repulse, Lightning, Unleash the Force, Lightsaber Block, Deflect, Force Defense and rerolls, just to name a few. Remember when I yelled out at Wampa Stompa that Salacious Crumb had just killed Mace? He was in Pellaeon's Ysalimiri Bubble at the time. I agree that playing him is problematic and fitting him into squads at times is difficult, though. I don't think Imperials have all of the answers in today's meta. However, IF and WHEN I play Imperials, he's as much of a staple as R2 is in Republic builds. Oh yeah... forgot one. Thought Bomb fizzles out at the edge of the bubble... can't go off at all inside it.
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TheHutts wrote:Before Destiny of the Force dropped in late 2010, there were threads about what the current competitive squads were. In a thread before Destiny of the Force came out, these squads were generally accepted as top: - Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo) swap squads - Princess Leia cannon squads - Yoda on Kybuck swap squads - Ganner + Mara + either Han GH or KKJBM - GGDAC + Lancer + Sidious (there was more debate about whether this belonged or not) Looking at Gencon results from 2011, the main thing that changed in the top 8 was the addition of a Bastila beef squad which went on to win - the Republic and New Republic squads made up the majority of the remainder of the top 8 and were similar to what was run in the previous year. So from Destiny of the Force, we can add: - Beefy Bastila squads With lots more pieces from Renegades and Rogues, have there been any more additions to what would could potentially make the top 8 at GenCon? Old Republic Bastila squads gets lots more options (especially with good shooters), but it's still based around Bastila... - C3PO/R2-D2 and Winter open up some other New Republic builds without Ganner/Mara etc, like http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/108267/promote-synergy--like-a-boss-- Sith with Darth Zannah, now she's set to get a boost from Soresu Style Mastery. I have no idea what the best Zannah squad is - maybe something with Traya, Atton 'Jaq' Rand, and Exar Kun DFS? Is this a good list of squads that you would consider bringing to GenCon if it was held this month, or are there other strong options too? I just like discussing the meta, and I was interested in knowing what people thought now, since it's not too long until Vengeance drops. Wow, I have a few minutes to pose an answer that isnt just a quick sentence! ok here goes. Since R&R has come out only a few large events have happened so I'll backtrack some to Gencon 2011 and add in some squads that have done well recently. Then I'll end with what to look forward to in Vengence Meta. 2011 Gencon was gone into knowing you'd have to deal with 2 squads. Those being a San Hill Pawn Lancer squad and Solo Charge. Those 2 were top dogs going in. What ended up happening is only 1 squad of either of those made the top tables. Solo Charge played by TINT. The rest of the squads were old standbys like Skybuck and varients thereof, Double Lancer made another run at it, Sepheroth1s Rebel Han Cannon squad showed Leia still had some power, and Old Republic snuck into the mix. We all know how that ended, Ian's Battlemaster swarm ended up taking the crown and Bastilla was jetted into power. So After Gencon I'd say the Power Meta looked like Skybuck Varients Solo Charge OR Beef San Lancer and some gimmick stuff thats pretty good Cad/Arica Double Lancer Rebel Cannon Imperial Echanis With R&R some big adds came into the meta. First off Zannah and Jaq brought Sith into a good point finally (Kinda like them Drafting Micheal Jordan and Kobe Bryant at once). General Wier made Imperial Shooting squads more interesting. Winter gives NR a new toy and squad type. Death shot Republic is nasty in the right hands due to New Panaka and new troopers. I'm basing these on results from tourneys, So I'd add these to the list Darth Zannah squads into top tier Imperial Shooty teams with Wier into gimmicky Winter Defense squads into gimmicky Death shot republic into gimmicky So with Vengence coming out within the month and Gowk and Zannah becoming stronger due to SSM changes the meta looks like this for right now IMO Top Tier GOWK + dudes Skybuck Varients Ganner + Mara + Disrupter Old Republic Beef with shooter backup Zannah Squads Thrawn + Pelleaon + Dudes Gimmicky but pretty good Lancer Varients Cad/Arica Rebel Cannon Imperial Echanis Winter Defense Death shot republic Thats how I see it anyway. I'm more of a Reactor then an Actor so these are subject to change after I see what happens with the Meta over regional season.
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Weeks wrote:
Top Tier
GOWK + dudes
Skybuck Varients
Ganner + Mara + Disrupter
Old Republic Beef with shooter backup
Zannah Squads
Thrawn + Pelleaon + Dudes
What do you think about Vong - it seems like pre-Vengeance Vong would have a shot against quite a few of the above, since it's a lot of force-based melee squads? Also, what do you think about Thon Bomb - Kavar seems like a pretty good counter to SSM, and can probably handle most of the above matchups fine as well?
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At 200 Vong havent shown they can compete as of yet. Perhaps after vengence they will show themselves as top tier.
I personally dont care for Thon, he is too big and too slow. Against a squad that uses force powers he may be better off.
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Weeks wrote: Thrawn + Pelleaon + Dudes
Personally I like Thrawn + Pelleaon + Lord Vader + High Act, especially with the SSM changes. Although I'm not sure if it would be considered any more than Gimmicky since it has glaring holes.
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I started a wiki on boardgamegeek, taking Weeks' comments above. I'd like to see the history of the meta captured there, too, if anyone else wants to contribute: http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Competitive_Star_Wars_Miniatures_Squads#
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