@gvos: My main point is indeed how it would be nice to have a seperate function button for the V-sets when building squads, searching for characters, and, most significantly, when rating squads.

I by no means meant that V-sets should not be used any anyone, only that V-sets are not something that all of us prefer to use. Yes, I am saying that the power creep has over taken a large portion of the original Mini's. You are spot on, I've been playing Mini's ever since Universe was a new set, so I have been able to see how Mini's have slowly evolved. While you certainly make a valid point that the power creep was in every set (except for Clone Strike in my opinion), I just think that the power-creep divide that is clearly evident between actual Mini's and virtual Mini's warrants a divide for rating squads. I say this because a competitive "underdog" faction squad made with purely pre V-set Mini's is deserving to be rated on its own from its counterpart squads with the power balancing V-set pieces. Your point that V-sets make previously obsolete pieces and underdog factions playable is solid: I completely agree. Which is why I'm not advocating that people stop using them, only that they stop being lumped together with squads that don't use V-sets.

I understand why some of the guys have taken offense as V-sets are held dear by most of the active users on this site. However, just because I don't like to use them doesn't mean I think every else should stop using them. I apologize if I came across as condescending towards V-sets and V-Set users. I concur with your point that the V-set guys have helped keep the game going and I too am grateful for that. I also appreciate opposing views and it was my hope that through mutual appreciation of each others views that we could come up with an addition to the site that accommodates everyone. Thank you for the welcome back to the Bloo Milk community and I thank you further for the respectful, insightful, intellectual response- both are greatly appreciated! =)

@Sithborg: Your redirect and referee action is rather appreciated. =)

One issue I see is a disagreement about what is "actual" and what is "virtual." The v-sets at this point are really only virtual in that they are made and distributed over the internet.

Maybe for some individuals they are not the "real" minis, but the realization of most in the community is that some sort of effort in continuing to make cards is what the game needs to continue. The v-sets need to be seen as legitimate for this to happen, and are doing a good job so far with playtesting and proofreading, etc. Separation of v-sets from the "actual" minis (in the OP's use of actual) harms at least a little this legitimacy.

So yes, they are CALLED virtual cards, but from the perspectives that matter in determining the relationship of the main websites for the game to the game, they ARE the ACTUAL cards just like RS-MotF. Therefore, to expect that on these websites that the game should be carried out in a way that the v-cards be depicted as less legitimate is quite an unrealistic and... hopeful expectationn.

(On a side note, I support v-sets, but I am nauseatingly annoyed with the "don't like v-sets, don't use them" line. One of the main reasons is that it is used on people who often have some sort of feeling that the v-sets are in some way a legitimate continuation of the game according to some authority that they feel they should respect, but they don't like that more cards are being made in which case they feel that THEIR game is being trampled on. Simply "not using them" isn't good enough, because someone else seems to be telling them how to play it. They get a feeling that if they don't play with v-cards, their game would be illegitimate. If a person just thought that v-sets were silly and totally illegitimate, maybe the "don't use them line" would be helpful, but IMO it would be just redundant.)

Also, the OP is correct, there has been power creep. But that's been happening since set #2. At least now we have power creep for OR, sith, mandos and vong too, and not just the rebels all the time like wotc did.

Mando to be clear the "don't like it don't use it" is what I saw in at least one RESPONSE to your posts, not your posts.

The V-sets are not broken.

Look at it his way: If you add new cards to a game, they need to be able to shake up the top tier. Otherwise, anything added won't be used because what is top tier would be unchanged.

What makes it seem like the vsets are overpowered is that the designers have thrown away the need for collectability, which is a good thing, as it removes the need for bad pieces. They don't have to throw in an equivalent to the Klatoonian Enforcer or a Mon Cal Knight for the sake of getting people to buy more to get the good stuff.

What all this means is that each set, instead of giving only a half-dozen pieces capable of shaking up the meta, now is giving closer to 50. The result of that is that the meta has expanded so much that you can no longer sit down and expect to face only 3-4 different core squads; Instead, it's a complete mystery what you might face, and that to me makes the game far more enjoyable.

As for the new stuff obsoleting the old, look at what's being obsoleted though, characters like Dr. Evazan and Carth Onasi, who were already obsolete the moment they left the factory. Ask yourself this: Did you ever really use those characters? Did you ever sit down to build a squad and go "Man, Biggs Darklighter or Calo Nord would really round out this team."? Besides, the old stuff is not forgotten. A good chunk of the V-stuff brings the old stuff back into the spotlight, like how Niles Ferrier brought Defels onto the table and Rom Mohc did the same for Dark Troopers.

Also, as for needing a photographic memory, this game is still so simple compared to most other games of it's nature. Look at the old Star Wars CCG. By the time the last official set came out, the glossary alone clocked in at over 200 pages. And you needed to have it all memorized if you wanted to play competitively.

Whoa! Hold your horses right there!

The fact that u don't like the thing, that we can use ANY piece in a place as a proxy is just........STRANGE. I mean, u get, that we can't produce minis for legal reasons? I like it, because now we can create our own minis (some better some worse, but it is still FUN to use proxy which u created from bottoms up). Firstly, now u don't have to overpay for a piece of plastic (i'm still waiting for my Skiff for a deacent cost). Secondly, each piece now not only is new, but is also competetive, and we don't get crappy fillers for each faction.

U say that Vsets destroy old ones. That's not entirely true. I mean, of course newer pieces are better than the old ones, but that's just the way it goes. Look at RS minis and compare them to CotF or IE. Do u see it? Only difference now is, that we don't get uniques that do nothing (look at MotF, beside Ganner all were really crappy). As I mentioned before it isn't true. Pieces like Mohc, Weir, Poggle, Klatoonian Captain bring old, dusted ones back to game. Of course, in order to bring nearly all factions back to play (competetive) we had to be given some game changers. Some might say, that they are OP. Many plp are whining about Bastila, but come on what were u saying when u found out Rieekan stats? And this is just an example, I could give u more and more.
I'm not saying that all v-set pieces are super, or that some mistakes haven't been made ( in my mind new Mace should have FR1 for his cost and his abilites, or that new Bao-dur should cost a little bit more~25 and many, many more) but that's just some obstacles that u have to learn to live with.

All in all this is a game, and personally it makes me smile that nowdays with vsets people try new combos each time we play(not just overplayed Han Cannon, Yobuck,Solo Charge or B&B- btw top old squads are still kinda good, so it's not like they have to be put in the box) that game isn't just limted as it used to be, each new piece brings some goodies and finally we get characters which we wanted to see from the start of this game (still waiting for Cloned Palpatine and Imperial Luke ) and redux characters from past which were just collecting dust.

Hate it or not, Vsets have really opened this game to nearly endless possibilies.

This makes no sense at all. Cry all you want about powercreep and broken minis, but the fact is that it wasn't any different with Wizos in charge. The release of newer sets often obsoleted older minis, that's not a new thing at all. In fact, the vsets do more than Wizos ever did to promote the use of older pieces, either as proxies or by boosting them (Weir, Mohc, Ferrier etc).
Powercreep has also been a part of the game almost from the start, just compare stats and abilities of the newer and older Wizo minis. The powercreep increased with the release of DotF, yes. But that set alone made entire factions playable that wasn't so before. I don't get you people complaining about it And the last two sets haven't been nearly as creepy as DotF was i think.


Way to go man. Laugh at peoples hard work to keep the game alive. That's precious If no new sets would be made, the best squads available would remain the best squads - forever. Oh boy, wouldn't that just make the game ever so exciting?
You think new players think it is "totally irritating" that they don't have to shell out a lot of money to get into the game? I don't. I completed my collection long ago, so i have no problem building squads. But i can imagine that newcomers are glad that they can easily make a squad that can actually compete, and not just some ragtag team of random jedi and bounty hunters.


What makes me go hmmmm is that your friends can play at GenCon or regionals without knowing about the vsets at all?!


Photographic memory? The abilities and such are spelled out on the card, it's right in front of you. And again, this is not a vset thing. As far as i recall, Wizos did in fact invent new abilities from time to time
Only time will tell for how long the vsets will keep coming. But as it is, they're pretty much the only thing keeping the game going for a lot of people - myself included. You don't have to use them if you don't want to, but whining about them like you do here won't help anyone. If you do in fact want any influence, you might want to bring some constructive criticism to the table instead.

I can't even respond without the mods, whom I respect, squishing me. Poop.

Well, I would like to bring up one thing.... GoWK. Has anything released in the V-Sets broken the Meta like he did when he came out..No. Want to talk about poor design, take one look at that guy and there you go. Thank goodness the V-Set came along and balanced things out to where GoWK no longers needs to be altered to be fair. Good job designers.

To be fair, urbanjedi just won a Regional with a squad consisting entirely of WotC pieces.