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Poll Question : Should we start banning pieces in competitive play
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes! Excellent Idea! 12 20.338983 %
I'm on the fence about the idea 7 11.864406 %
No! Terrible idea! 38 64.406779 %
If this happens I'm done playing the game. 1 1.694915 %
Could care less 1 1.694915 %

Is it time to start banning pieces? Options
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 1:39:28 PM
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I voted No. I think banning pieces is completely unnecessary, given that we have a wide range of squads doing well.

Based on Regional results this year, the piece that would potentially go would be Mitt'Thrawn. But if you take him out, Imperials would be hampered a lot - they'd still have Grand Admiral Thrawn, but he works best with non-uniques so it would limit their options a lot. Imperial are doing well in this year's meta, but they did poorly at GenCon last year. They've had a few significant additions from last year (Morrigan Corde seems to fit well, Jim has been doing well with Desann), but nothing too warping - I think it's more the change in what else has been run, more than the change in Imperials themselves, that's the difference.
countrydude82487
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 1:49:54 PM
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to be honest not banning pieces is one of the reasons i have loved this game. Yes there were the occasional pieces that got banned or temporarily banned, or are even banned in specific formats, but to me the lack of banning was a great selling point for me. I mean i played magic before and got tired of the amount of upkeep involved i mean i had specific decks i wanted to play that after a little over a year were no longer legal; so you have to completely change your strategy in some cases, and to me that is an issue. Now with our game, yes there are some squads that get phased out over the years but many of the previously competitive squads can still be competitive and functional. Sometimes without even any tweaks.
Cassus fett
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 1:54:31 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I think nerfing pieces through silver bullets is a far better idea than banning pieces. A low-cost Fringe reinforcement that nullifies or greatly blunts a seemingly overpowered piece (by name, even) would bring it back to earth very quickly.


Didn't we just have a thread asking a similar question? Anyway I think this is probably one of the best ideas i've ever heard suggested to deal with "over powered" pieces. P.S how about we just use normal bullets okay ;)
Darth_Jim
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:09:10 PM
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One thing that needs to kept in mind is that the designers (including WotC designers) created pieces with existing ones in mind. So, factions have evolved to the point that if you take certain pieces out, it nerfs that faction. (See Weeks' list) What the current designers are also trying to do now is create alternatives. I know the attempt at that a few sets ago for Imperials didn't pan out, but I see it starting to take form with Republic, New Republic, and maybe even Rebels.

The French and Germans have been banning pieces for some time now, as they seem to generally be against the Vsets. That leaves a static environment with no new pieces. I was against their bans initially because it actually restricts the meta, but if they are going to outlaw the Vsets then a revolving ban (different pieces for each season) would keep the meta fresh even if it is restricted. I think just as much care has to be taken in the bans as it does in designing pieces, so why not keep creating new stuff?

One other thing has been on my mind. The designers not only have to design usable pieces for our game, but they also have to meld that with canon. I don't think the game is fun if there are broken pieces, and I don't think the game is fun if the pieces become watered down and the factions (and pieces) lose their unique flavor. I don't envy them in their task and thats why I will never be a designer...I know I could never do it.

Thanks to everyone here for keeping this thread civil. I'd be happy to talk about this on the show if we can all keep it to a discussion and avoid heated exchanges.
Cassus fett
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:10:06 PM
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I will admit me and my brother have banned each other from using certain pieces and combos before because we felt they took the fun out of the game or caused games to drag on with neither of us doing much. Examples include, Republic and Imperial super stealth squads essentially boiled down to both of us sitting in cover waiting for someone to move out or make a mistake. Squads loaded with Evade charcaters making it impossible for anyone to hit anything, and squads encourgeing lazy play with lots of sitting just around a corner waiting for someone to come within grenade range. All that being said it started to suck after a while because I wanted to use Baccara because I like him and not even for his super stealth, and an all grenade squad while my brother came up with a killer evade squad. so we don't ban anything anymore. Thats how banning affected me and my brother i'm not quite sure how it would effect the entire communty though but i feel it would really restrict the meta down to a few repetitive choices making the game boring.
Joseph blob
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:27:53 PM
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Does anyone else notice that there seems to be at least one thread about banning or fixing over powered or v-set people every going every week or so? Unsure
kezzamachine
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:31:38 PM
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Nope. I don't believe there's anything like a need for it. We have no problems like this in the NZ at all.

Plus, using the Thrawn example, if you did say ban Thrawn, that leaves roughly 70-80 pieces that have since specifically been designed with him in the game that now have no access to that. Imperials effectively disappear. Then, what happens to all future design? Do they design pieces with Thrawn NOT being in the picture? Now, in a coupl'a years time, if the debate comes up to say, "perhaps we should bring back the banned pieces" and there have been a coupl'a sets of Imperials designed with Thrawn off the table, they could easily be waaaaaay over-powered due to him coming back. Then you'd have to ban them.

OR, what if we in NZ didn't like the idea of banning (because we don't) and decided to ignore the ban (not that we would - we work really hard to be in line with the US! - but I'm using us as an example) and then, every set that comes out after that with Imperials designed for no Thrawn makes the game freaky-unbalanced for us.

Easier to ban in your own group. That way, you know that it's your own group and you know that when you go to another or to a Regional, you have the same playing field. Plus, and this is the real awesome thing, you've been able to sit down with your group and have an active discussion about how you want the game in your area to look. "You want to ban Thrawn? Sure, let's talk about that..." valuable, valuable discussion.
kezzamachine
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:33:53 PM
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Also, I'm not sure we even need to get the SHNN to talk about it. They pretty much talk about it all the time and don't agree with it. (That's just what I've picked up after listening to 175 episodes...)
corranhorn
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:34:42 PM
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Joseph blob wrote:
Does anyone else notice that there seems to be at least one thread about banning or fixing over powered or v-set people every going every week or so? Unsure


Yep. People love to hate on the Vsets, altthough that thankfully is not the case here.
corranhorn
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:35:20 PM
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kezzamachine wrote:
Also, I'm not sure we even need to get the SHNN to talk about it. They pretty much talk about it all the time and don't agree with it. (That's just what I've picked up after listening to 175 episodes...)


Clearly you need to listen to more. Razz
kezzamachine
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:38:07 PM
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That's what I think my wife says...
corranhorn
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:39:51 PM
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kezzamachine wrote:
That's what I think my wife says...


If she's also telling you what you wear dosen't matter you may be imagining things.
Cassus fett
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 2:57:36 PM
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Sorry little nooby here what Is SHNN is it a podcast or youtube show? if so sign me up!
markedman247
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 3:32:41 PM
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corranhorn wrote:
Joseph blob wrote:
Does anyone else notice that there seems to be at least one thread about banning or fixing over powered or v-set people every going every week or so? Unsure


Yep. People love to hate on the Vsets, altthough that thankfully is not the case here.


Actually, it happens every regional up until the finals. It doesn't just relate to V-sets. It's been this way for years. Boba Fett, BH was my first memory about it. But, I am sure there were others just not as concentrated.
corranhorn
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 4:10:57 PM
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markedman247 wrote:
corranhorn wrote:
Joseph blob wrote:
Does anyone else notice that there seems to be at least one thread about banning or fixing over powered or v-set people every going every week or so? Unsure


Yep. People love to hate on the Vsets, altthough that thankfully is not the case here.


Actually, it happens every regional up until the finals. It doesn't just relate to V-sets. It's been this way for years. Boba Fett, BH was my first memory about it. But, I am sure there were others just not as concentrated.


I know, but we've had a lot even in the off season.
jak
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 4:14:09 PM
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BAN 'EM ALL! I SAY!
except jawas & tuskens
saber1
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 5:20:26 PM
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Strong pieces are made, then counters follow. It's the ebb and flow of any customizable game. Banning is neither good, nor necessary.
drakelee
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 5:47:31 PM
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I think banning any piece is a bad idea. No piece is too powerful to deserve that. Also another question..i have been playing since A&E and i wonder why everyone says imperials are no good without Thrawn. I know...off topic but @ the time of LOTF i didn't own Thrawn and played heavy on imp's and won quite often in agroup of 15 to 25 players. Sorry for the side track...No banning. What if it was your favorite piece?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 6:12:43 PM
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drakelee wrote:
I think banning any piece is a bad idea. No piece is too powerful to deserve that. Also another question..i have been playing since A&E and i wonder why everyone says imperials are no good without Thrawn. I know...off topic but @ the time of LOTF i didn't own Thrawn and played heavy on imp's and won quite often in agroup of 15 to 25 players. Sorry for the side track...No banning. What if it was your favorite piece?


"Thrawn" didn't exist at the time of LotF. Grand Admiral Thrawn did, and he's now much more playable with Paelleon around, but for a general purpose squad the IE Thrawn is quite a bit better than GAT, so that's the one people generally talk about.
Prestige Worldwide
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2013 6:40:53 PM
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If you think there are broken pieces then you obviously need to learn to play imo. I mean if GMA, Triple, Flurry, Vaapad Mastery is broken, then I don't even want to play anymore.
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