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Cassus fett wrote:Because it seems like everyone on the planet complains about wedge, also I never found gowk to be a problem, mayve becuase I never faced him but I think that he suffered from internet snowballing. In fact I'd place captain rex as a bigger problem then GOWK I've always complained more about Rieekan than Wedge - Rieekan is 9 points cheaper, and his CE is for allies, not just followers. Plus I like that Wedge can kind of be near the action - since he has Evade, Mobile and 70hp, he can come near the action and shoot Ugnaughts, while Rieekan normally ends up hiding out back. I don't really have a problem with Caedus or Kelborn either - they're both strong, but they both encourage movement and more dynamic play, which are good things IMO.
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I'll base this on being the most "outrageous", not the most broken. Even thought they do intertwine.
Top 5 V-set Pieces-
Honorable Mentions:
Atton Rand- Way powerful for his cost. But, is definitely a very helpful part of OR.
Darth Zannah- She's not the most offensive fighter in the world, but her defense is comparable, if not better than General Obi Wan. Which is mega annoying and ridiculous.
Mace LotLS- He's ungodly powerful, although weaker now than he once was. As Shmi stated, the ability and potential to do unlimited damage is a bit much.
5. Darth Caedus, Sith Lord- He is a force to be reckoned with. Very aggresively costed, great defense, and his force powers are unmatched. Sith Battle Manipulation mixed with Aing-Tii Flow Walking is just plain demoralizing. Initiative Control means nothing to Caedus, and he's definitely the first of his kind.
4. Satele Shan- I hear all the time about how Atton is undercosted. Um, Satele imo is even more undercosted. Intuition with Bodyguard is crazy powerful as it is. Add that with Lightsaber Assault with Cunning, as well as ABM from Bastila, and she's swinging for 80 at a 16 attack. And not only that, but she has FP2, and Absorb Energy with Master of the Force 2 with Mettle to help make sure it works. PLUS PARRY. Yeah, she's loaded to the max. I find it hard to build in OR at all without using her.
3. Bastila Shan, JM- I don't find her that annoying to face personally. But, i think we can all agree that ABM was probably not good for the game. This piece alone limits potential greatly in OR.
2. Poggle the Lesser- 2 point pieces are bad enough as it is. But, add in that they have a chance to be reborn, and oh... SELF DESTRUCT. For 2 points. Yeah, that's a bit outrageous.
1. Panaka of Theed- Naboo squads have changed this game. In every squad i make now, I have to plan for naboo, due to their overwhelming power for their cost. It's a huge NPE for me personally, as well as many others I know and play against. Outrageous. Truly, truly outrageous.
Now for the Non-V-Set pieces.
Honorable Mention:
Boba Fett, BH- Ah, the first Disentigration piece. He used to be the ultimate piss-off piece, next to maybe Kenobi. Roll a 20 and win. That's outrageous.
Mouse Droid/Gha- A 3 point piece with a 20 d? Crazy good. Can't imagine how many times I've wasted shots trying to kill mouse droids, only to fail again and again and again. Now, put Gha Nackt in there, and you have a HUGE npe. 2 point 20 defense pieces? Oh, sweet Jesus.
Lobot- I don't consider him outrageous. However, his utility in the game is unmatched, and is easily one of the best pieces in the game.
Mas Amedda- Okay, hear me out on this. I think Booming Voice is great for the game. It gives much more ease to actually keep your important commander effects, which makes for better and smoother gameplay. Sure, he's undercosted and a staple in all Republic/Imperial squads, but I am not bothered by his existence.
5. Thrawn- The ability to Swap pieces across the board is incredibly powerful. Master Tactitian is equally as powerful. But, mix in either Ysilimiri or Opportunist, and you have a crazy outrageous staple piece. Plus, he's not a bad shooter to boot.
4. Doombot- Tow cable is the ultimate movement breaker. Put this one a 9 point piece just by itself, and i'd still call it undercosted by at least 8-10 points. Add in override, the most powerful ability in the game, and you have Doombot. He's been a staple for years, and is the only of his kind.
3. General Obi-Wan- He's the ultimare defense piece with a super powerful Commander effect. SSM with Mettle? Good luck attacking him. You have a better chance hammering in a nail on the wall with a sledgehammer. The ultimate tank. It's frustratingly outrageous.
2. Dodonna- Act control is the second most powerful ability in the game, next to override. And Dodonna is the best of both worlds. Choices on how many to act in a 9 point piece, come on now Wizards.
1. The freaking Lancer- With the ability to go, at the end of a round (which is way easy to do in seps), you have the potential to cover 72 squares. 72 squares. Let me say it again. 72 SQUARES. And everything within that path is going to take damage. You have to keep your important door control on watch at all times, and that sucks. Sure, it's squishy and a large piece. But, it has proven time and time again that it is, and will probably always be(in the right hands)absolutely and positively outRAGEous.
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My opinion (coming from a huge Sep/droid player):
1. Mouse Droid, stupid wall cover auto include
2. Bastilla, the OR needed a comeback but she is way to powerful. Still hoping for a counter against her, force phantoms anyone?
3. IG Lancer, Why does this piece exist? So broken.
4. Naboo Pilots, super overpowered
5. General Dodonna, 14 point epic auto include
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AndyHatton wrote:Jem is Excitement! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20BZID081VkIts interesting seeing this list, because I started playing in Jedi Academy, I didn't know the game before a lot of these figures so it is so hard to imagine me playing without Mouse Droids...but I do know I over-rely on Dodonna and Mas...I think they have both made me lazy in many regards. Haha I knew exactly what this was without clicking it:)
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TheHutts wrote:Cassus fett wrote:Because it seems like everyone on the planet complains about wedge, also I never found gowk to be a problem, maybe becuase I never faced him but I think that he suffered from internet snowballing. In fact I'd place captain rex as a bigger problem then GOWK I've always complained more about Rieekan than Wedge - Rieekan is 9 points cheaper, and his CE is for allies, not just followers. Plus I like that Wedge can kind of be near the action - since he has Evade, Mobile and 70hp, he can come near the action and shoot Ugnaughts, while Rieekan normally ends up hiding out back. I don't really have a problem with Caedus or Kelborn either - they're both strong, but they both encourage movement and more dynamic play, which are good things IMO. Agreed 100% 
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@DieandbeMetal i've never heard one complaint about satel shan but looking back at her now I see what you're talking about.
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Reverse order of personal annoyance:
5. Klatooinian Assassins. Should have had only 10 hp, or SD 10, or not cloaked, or not an uber attack. All together it's just nuts. And cheap to be asily spammed.
4. Dodonna. No downside. Auto-include for Rebel and NR. San and Ozzel take more skill, since there is a clear downside.
3. Panaka of Theed. Naboo Pilots and Troopers wouldn't be an issue without him. HE is the piece that is the problem, though the focus is often put on the grunts doing the dirty work. I really think any vote for Naboo Pilot or Naboo Trooper when examined more closely should be a vote for Panaka of Theed.
2. GOWK - Hey, here's a great idea - let's give this guy an ability to negate ALL attacks. In a game based on attacks. Not only melee, or non-melee, or non-adjacent or adjacent. Simply all attacks. Then let's give him a much better chance to do it with mettle. Oh, then let's have him be able to reroll twice, stacking the mettle bonus. Yeah - let's make sure he has renewal so he won't run out of FPs too quick. Oh - did we mention the ability is free and automatic? Lets just let this piece have the ability to live forever, mostly based on luck. Yeah, then let's give him really high defense and a killer commander effect. Yeah - smart. Oh, and if it is ever deemed too good and errata'd due to conflicting glossary and card, let's make sure to overturn THAT and make it super strong again. Yeah, it's not like it's good enough to win the world championship . . . oh wait
1. Darth Zannah - What? She's not tearing up the top tables. Why her? Well, she has the same BS that GOWK has for the most part (minus the CE and Mettle), but add on Force Bubble, and the worst ability in the game to date - lightsaber combat expert 19. Let's take that same way to negate ALL attacks, and then shoot it back at you. With no way to counter that ability on attacks. Oh, and it's free too! Let's just take a piece where luck looms large, and then amplify that luck. It doesn't encourage engagement, it makes you want to kill all her team and lock her out. Yeah - that's just what the game needed. A lame attacking piece that lives forever and makes games longer.
"I kinda thought attacking my opponent's pieces was like the entire point of the game." Graham Bingham.
Wise words. SSM and especially Lightsaber Combat Expert make for horrible games. They are completely beatable, I still have yet to EVER lose to either piece in a competitive game, but they just make for an awful play experience.
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General_Grievous wrote:
2. Bastilla, the OR needed a comeback but she is way to powerful. Still hoping for a counter against her, force phantoms anyone?
I've been lobbying for this one, but it would have made the most sense on a big NR Luke. We just got 2 of them with nothing like it, so I doubt we'll ever see an ability like this: Master Meditation: Force 1 - For the rest of the skirmish, enemies who use Force powers that contain the word Meditation must spend one extra Force.
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Bastila - the boardwide Disruptive is the bad part. The +10 damage I actually like, but it means you can never play OR without her. NPE because it means you don't get to play 'your' squad when you face her. We got used to her, but I still wish she didn't exist - or was at least weaker.
Klatooinian Assassin -Kel Dors weren't exactly in need of an improvement, but that's what we have here.
Mara Jade, Jedi - costed and has stats like a melee piece. But is non-melee so all the melee counters are useless. Parry, Riposte, Djem So, Block. Can't even Evade when she's adjacent.
Poggle - I'm the one clamoring for more cheap tech options, but I never asked for something to swarm with at 3 points. Much less 2 points. I think the Poggle fiasco soured everyone on 2 and 3 point pieces, so not only do I dislike it for the 2 point bombs, I dislike it because it seems like it turned the whole community away from something I'd like to see more of: low cost tech options.
Darth Zannah - Because GOWK wasn't enough of a tank.
You'll notice almost all of these are VSet pieces. I came in during Imperial Entanglements, so I guess anything before that is 'status quo' to me. Dodonna, Rieekan, R2-AM, etc... I might dislike them more if I'd ever played the game without them.
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TimmerB123 "Wise words. SSM and especially Lightsaber Combat Expert make for horrible games. They are completely beatable, I still have yet to EVER lose to either piece in a competitive game, but they just make for an awful play experience"
I have never lost either because almost everyone I've ever see play them (Mainly GOWK) falls into the trap of thinking that they are invincible, and once they lose the peice their entire strategy falls apart. Also let me tell you some of the reactions i've seen once they see their preacious GOWK go down were priceless.
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No particular order...
Mas: I only have problems with him in the games where he allows board-wide swap.
Thrawn, Mith...: MT, Swap, Opportunist... combine with Mas... The reason why I don't like going against Imps
Bastila, JM: If BM ended at the end of the round or if it was either one of the two, I would've been fine. But they put both effects and made it where it can carry over two rounds at a time.
Lancer Droid: PotDS with Sidious, Twin with Loathsome or Grievous... You better have some hit-back ability or else you won't be hitting that thing much.
Mouse Droids: Does what the commanders with a limit of 6 squares should be doing. IMO, you're more of a tactician if you carefully place that commander somewhere and position your squads correctly with him.
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OK - pieces with 5 or more votes so far (including the ballots down through Swinefeld below). WOTC pieces are dominating this list 7-5, and have 4 of the top 5, and it's also worth noting that all of the v-set pieces are from the first couple of sets. Looks like a pretty sensible top 12 to me.
General Dodonna: 13
Bastila Shan, Jedi Master: 11
R2-D2 Astromech Droid: 11
Mas Amedda: 10
IG-Lancer: 8
Poggle The Lesser: 8
Captain Panaka of Theed: 8
GOWK: 7
Mace Legacy of the Light Side: 7
Mouse Droid: 6
Thrawn: 5
Darth Zannah :5
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I'll cast my vote....
5. Bastilla
4. Mas
3. Panaka of Theed
2. IG Lancer/Yobuck
1. R2 Astromech
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Doombot - override mixed with one of, if not then the best movement breakers in the game and for only 9 points.
Dodonna - I'm really starting to hate activation control. And this guy is the best at it (no downside). So lets make him the cheapest. Cause that makes a lot of sense.
Lancer - outactivate then fly over everybody without taking AoO's. and do it again. I hate the idea of this in the game. The only thing worse would be if it had a lot of hp... ...
Mace LOTS - so we needed a republic beat stick that can do unlimited damage on anybody's turn. Really. Lets make another epic mace except we can cost him at 65 and not call him an epic piece.
Panaka of Theed - Did the Naboo really need to get that strong. They were Naboo, so I think no.
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5. Bastila Shan, Jedi Master; Advanced Battle Meditation would have been better off with ending at the start of the next round, rather than the end of her next turn.
4. Mas; Booming Voice is the ultimate crutch ability for the Republic and Imperials.
3. Doombot; just such a ridiculous movement breaker, for such a low cost.
2. GOWK; the ability to block damage from any source, and then being able to reroll with a better chance of succeeding, just amazing.
1. Darth Zannah; it's Lady GOWK, except she has been taken to the next level in terms of damage soaking ability.
While I don't hate any of these pieces, and enjoy playing against squads of all types, sometimes squads with these (and some other) pieces just becomes a pain to play against.
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TimmerB123 wrote:3. Panaka of Theed. Naboo Pilots and Troopers wouldn't be an issue without him. HE is the piece that is the problem, though the focus is often put on the grunts doing the dirty work. I really think any vote for Naboo Pilot or Naboo Trooper when examined more closely should be a vote for Panaka of Theed. Dunno Tim, PoT is a problem, but not the only one(cast my 5th vote for PoT) this squad would be much more difficult to run but a good player would make it nasty. 23 Mon Mothma 21 Admiral Yularen 16 Queen Amidala 26 Czerka Scientist x2 9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid 8 Mas Amedda 8 R7 Astromech Droid 78 Naboo Trooper x13 8 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x2 3 Mouse Droid (200pts. 24 activations) You could get rid of the Czerks and get 4 more Troops.
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No particular order:
Doombot (too cheap)
Dodonna (way too cheap)
Panaka of Theed (rangeless granting of Twin bothers me more than the stacking Rapport)
Mouse Droid (dirt cheap 20 defense blockers are maddening)
Bastila (ABM for the round would be fine for her cost)
runners up:
GOWK, Mace LotLS, JAQ, Klat Assassin
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