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Galactic Funk wrote:A couple can go 24, not all of them. I guess I'm thinking that the Naboo troopers would be able to take out more Snowtroopers than the Snowtroopers can keep up with. The Naboo also have mobile which is a big deal. You could be right though. It would be interesting to see play out. Only 3 per round can charge 24, correct. Whether the Naboo can pick them off depends on how hard it is to stay out of sight. The snowtroopers have no reason to show their face until they charge, other than the fact that there are so many that they might not all be able to stay hidden. An advantage is that they don't need to stay together. They can spread out across the whole map if necessary to fill in all the hiding places. Sounds like a matchup that could end up being very map-dependent. Would be interesting to play out.
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I just commented on Deathwielded's squad saying that I think Flim is probably worth it. I think next time I play it I'll try taking him over the Czerka. The Czerka is great in that anything that approaches will get chewed up completely by a TON of damage. But anything that approaches is likely to get shot up anyway without the Czerka. The place that extra punch is needed is on a deep strike where a lone trooper loses both Squad Firepower and Twin. Flim granting that trooper another attack could be huge. That makes it a 50dmg attacker instead of 30. Enough to kill an Echani or a Lancer if you can catch up to them. It does take 3 activations to do it, though... Driver, Charging Fire, Flim.
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Flim is definitely worth it IMO, not only is double slave driver great to help
everyone get into position for late round strikes, It also allows double mines for the bothans, which isn't as important but shouldn't be overlooked. As previously
Mentioned an extra attack for one of the snows is also huge. For his cost, flim definitely helps out the squad a ton. Also, imperial triumvirate can help with initiative with the absence of thrawn.
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For another use of Slave Driver it's a lot more cost effective to just add 2 more Zygerrians instead of Flim. Same thing to get double mines. I guess the flexibility is worth something, but I think the deep strike is where Flim's real use is. You get double damage instead of +10 that you'd get from GARY, which would be a comparable cost for a different type of boost. And Flim's boost always works instead of only on unactivated characters. Downside is that it takes an extra activation to get the damage off and that GARY is a decent attacker himself. Tough call.
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With regards to going against the Naboo it depends, as the R.N.A.F. and Troopers play very differently. While the Pilots have evade they will have trouble when based and trading a 4 for a 9 is a win. Furthermore there will be less Pilots in the base build; now against the Troopers not so much as I would have at least 15 in the base build all twinning and mobile. Its much the same as FA describes the Troopers flood the lanes and mow down that which gets in their way but their base attack is a bit of a problem as they are heavily dependent on gettin the +4 from Opportunist.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Galactic Funk wrote:A couple can go 24, not all of them. I guess I'm thinking that the Naboo troopers would be able to take out more Snowtroopers than the Snowtroopers can keep up with. The Naboo also have mobile which is a big deal. You could be right though. It would be interesting to see play out. Only 3 per round can charge 24, correct. Whether the Naboo can pick them off depends on how hard it is to stay out of sight. The snowtroopers have no reason to show their face until they charge, other than the fact that there are so many that they might not all be able to stay hidden. An advantage is that they don't need to stay together. They can spread out across the whole map if necessary to fill in all the hiding places. Sounds like a matchup that could end up being very map-dependent. Would be interesting to play out. I was just estimating that a lot of these squads might not have more than a couple Zygerrian Slavers. I guess we will see where the sweet spot is with them.
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DARPH NADER wrote:With regards to going against the Naboo it depends, as the R.N.A.F. and Troopers play very differently. While the Pilots have evade they will have trouble when based and trading a 4 for a 9 is a win. Furthermore there will be less Pilots in the base build; now against the Troopers not so much as I would have at least 15 in the base build all twinning and mobile. Yeah I was specifically referencing the Naboo Troopers, not the RNAF.
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FlyingArrow wrote:For another use of Slave Driver it's a lot more cost effective to just add 2 more Zygerrians instead of Flim. Same thing to get double mines. I guess the flexibility is worth something, but I think the deep strike is where Flim's real use is. You get double damage instead of +10 that you'd get from GARY, which would be a comparable cost for a different type of boost. And Flim's boost always works instead of only on unactivated characters. Downside is that it takes an extra activation to get the damage off and that GARY is a decent attacker himself. Tough call. Well if its the deep strike extra attack you want why not just throw in an Imperial Officer for 2 points less?
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Galactic Funk wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:For another use of Slave Driver it's a lot more cost effective to just add 2 more Zygerrians instead of Flim. Same thing to get double mines. I guess the flexibility is worth something, but I think the deep strike is where Flim's real use is. You get double damage instead of +10 that you'd get from GARY, which would be a comparable cost for a different type of boost. And Flim's boost always works instead of only on unactivated characters. Downside is that it takes an extra activation to get the damage off and that GARY is a decent attacker himself. Tough call. Well if its the deep strike extra attack you want why not just throw in an Imperial Officer for 2 points less? Cuz You also get +2 to your initiative and you get more options with Flim (such as using his CE for Mines or Slave Driver) even though you will most likely use it like FlyingArrow said.
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Galactic Funk wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:For another use of Slave Driver it's a lot more cost effective to just add 2 more Zygerrians instead of Flim. Same thing to get double mines. I guess the flexibility is worth something, but I think the deep strike is where Flim's real use is. You get double damage instead of +10 that you'd get from GARY, which would be a comparable cost for a different type of boost. And Flim's boost always works instead of only on unactivated characters. Downside is that it takes an extra activation to get the damage off and that GARY is a decent attacker himself. Tough call. Well if its the deep strike extra attack you want why not just throw in an Imperial Officer for 2 points less? It's only one point less (Flim 15 and Imp Officer 14), and mainly I'd take Flim because he provides the option for an extra Mines/Driver just in case you need it. I wouldn't take Flim just for an extra Mines/Driver, but I think the option would be worth a point. He also gives +2 to init and his extra attack is boardwide instead of unlimited range. That's unlikely to matter, but it could in some strange situation where you have a trooper at the other end of the board locked in a room. Though a trooper at the other end of the board is more than likely dead instead of locked in. (Edit: ninja'd)
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So back to the question posed in this thread, based on our collective dialogue will Daala impact the Meta? My answer is yes but just how much is another question open for debate, as the Meta is wide open.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Galactic Funk wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:For another use of Slave Driver it's a lot more cost effective to just add 2 more Zygerrians instead of Flim. Same thing to get double mines. I guess the flexibility is worth something, but I think the deep strike is where Flim's real use is. You get double damage instead of +10 that you'd get from GARY, which would be a comparable cost for a different type of boost. And Flim's boost always works instead of only on unactivated characters. Downside is that it takes an extra activation to get the damage off and that GARY is a decent attacker himself. Tough call. Well if its the deep strike extra attack you want why not just throw in an Imperial Officer for 2 points less? It's only one point less (Flim 15 and Imp Officer 14), and mainly I'd take Flim because he provides the option for an extra Mines/Driver just in case you need it. I wouldn't take Flim just for an extra Mines/Driver, but I think the option would be worth a point. He also gives +2 to init and his extra attack is boardwide instead of unlimited range. That's unlikely to matter, but it could in some strange situation where you have a trooper at the other end of the board locked in a room. Though a trooper at the other end of the board is more than likely dead instead of locked in. (Edit: ninja'd) Fair enough. I'very never used Flim before and initially missed the ability to let a Slaver drive another trooper. While that's very cool, you still don't get the extra attack when you do it. I wasn't paying attention to range either because the squad I have been toying with has Mas for Piett (who I have no intention of pulling). And the Officer does cost 2 less. Rapport from Daala. 
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DARPH NADER wrote:So back to the question posed in this thread, based on our collective dialogue will Daala impact the Meta? My answer is yes but just how much is another question open for debate, as the Meta is wide open. "Impact" the meta... only in the sense that there may be a competitive Tier 1 build with her. I don't really think she will be something that adds something new to keep in mind as you build, though, like Bastila or the Lancer or Mace. Her good/bad matchups seem like they'll be much like the Naboo squads, so the impact on other players' squadbuilding will probably be minimal, even if she does wind up being tier 1. (At least with a chargin Snowtrooper swarm. Maybe a build focused on something higher-cost would have a bigger impact.)
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I also think that Durge on Speeder is arguably the best piece in the new sets. I see him being popular, and being able to deal with the Trooper swarms well.
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Galactic Funk wrote:Fair enough. I'very never used Flim before and initially missed the ability to let a Slaver drive another trooper. While that's very cool, you still don't get the extra attack when you do it. I wasn't paying attention to range either because the squad I have been toying with has Mas for Piett (who I have no intention of pulling). And the Officer does cost 2 less. Rapport from Daala. I've never used Flim before either, but I plan to try him next time. You don't get the extra attack, but maybe the flexibility is worth something. Not sure. Good call with the Rapport... I missed that and that extra point might make a difference. Mas is mandatory anyway for the Snowtrooper commanders. If you use both GARY and Piett you could possibly get away without the IE Snowtrooper Commander. That would put you at a constant +12 attack. But the new one is the Rapport and Squad Firepower... I don't see how you go without that.
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TheHutts wrote:I also think that Durge on Speeder is arguably the best piece in the new sets. I see him being popular, and being able to deal with the Trooper swarms well. He would be a big problem, but he can't be pawned, and he costs enough that there's a decent chance the snowtroopers would out-activate his squad, even with a bunch of Poggle Bombs. I think Durge has the advantage over the troopers, but the Lancer seems like a bigger problem than he is.
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FlyingArrow wrote:TheHutts wrote:I also think that Durge on Speeder is arguably the best piece in the new sets. I see him being popular, and being able to deal with the Trooper swarms well. He would be a big problem, but he can't be pawned, and he costs enough that there's a decent chance the snowtroopers would out-activate his squad, even with a bunch of Poggle Bombs. I think Durge has the advantage over the troopers, but the Lancer seems like a bigger problem than he is. Yes, I playtested Durge several times before he was released, and I could never really get him to work as a traditional strafer, since he can't be pawned. You can throw him out there 24, but then he'll get eaten by pretty much everything in the opponent's squad. I think the only times he'll be strafing in competitive games are the times when someone comes in close, at which point he will be able to strafe/strike for 80 and then transform into Durge JH, who will triple-twin for complete devastation the next round. Lancers pretty much need that second activation of flying/strafing in order to do their job effectively. I'd be more worried about either the Poggle/Lancer or the Double Lancer build, both of which would likely shred a Daala squad.
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thereisnotry wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:TheHutts wrote:I also think that Durge on Speeder is arguably the best piece in the new sets. I see him being popular, and being able to deal with the Trooper swarms well. He would be a big problem, but he can't be pawned, and he costs enough that there's a decent chance the snowtroopers would out-activate his squad, even with a bunch of Poggle Bombs. I think Durge has the advantage over the troopers, but the Lancer seems like a bigger problem than he is. Yes, I playtested Durge several times before he was released, and I could never really get him to work as a traditional strafer, since he can't be pawned. You can throw him out there 24, but then he'll get eaten by pretty much everything in the opponent's squad. I think the only times he'll be strafing in competitive games are the times when someone comes in close, at which point he will be able to strafe/strike for 80 and then transform into Durge JH, who will triple-twin for complete devastation the next round. Lancers pretty much need that second activation of flying/strafing in order to do their job effectively. I'd be more worried about either the Poggle/Lancer or the Double Lancer build, both of which would likely shred a Daala squad. Durge + single pawned lancer is pretty strong. Have the lancer do most of the work and durge can close. Once you're up on activations durge just camps in gambit and kills whoever tries to take it. With a MTB he can be brutal to have to deal with late game.
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I think that Daala will effect meta by increasing the number of kybuck/lancer squads we we see, driving there numbers back up. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
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adamb0nd wrote:I think that Daala will effect meta by increasing the number of kybuck/lancer squads we we see, driving there numbers back up. Search your feelings, you know it to be true. LOL you are right
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