Finally built Dave's squad so I could move some pieces around the board and ran through a couple of games with myself.

Ran through against 4 different squads just to see what it looked like.

Against double lancer (peaceful city/muun): Lancer struggled because if they can keep Daala safe, the lancers are too fragile to stand up to even 1 hit from anything, so even if the lancer could get off really good strafes (5 or more guys) that still leaves multiple guys left over to handle sid and the IG86 (which just takes a won init to kill without losing anything). This really, really depends on map, because on say Muun there is nowhere to hid Daala (or alot of the other guys that can keep them safe).

Against old school Yobuck (peaceful city/Asteroid base): brought in r7 and 4x rodians. Fared much better. Yobuck CAN take a shot and you can swap in more stuff to kill dudes (Dash or Skywalker) or some of your fodder if you really want. It isn't straightforward as you do need to be able to get off at least 2 gallops depending on how they set up. On asteroid base they can block up most of the entrances with 30+ hp dudes so that yoda can't clean sweep everything on his first go, but depending on which way yoda comes in, taking out those commanders can be huge.

Against Handmaidens (peaceful city/Jabba's palace): Handmaidens couldn't really compete at all. even winning init every round didn't help much. Managed to take out most of the troopers in the end but couldn't handle the commanders or the other support. The fact that Daala could trade 5 troopers for 1 handmaiden really meant that the handmaidens didn't stand a chance. Didn't play this out on Jabba's palace (just peaceful city), but I don't think map would change much at all.

Against Homicidal Mace (Peaceful City/Cantina): GOWK/Mace seems the way to go. Brought in Momaw and a Jawa with Lobot. Imps took out Dr. E at the end of the first round, and then won init and took out Momaw. I actually misplayed this as I mistakenly protected R2 (and not Momaw) but it didn't really matter. Started eating troopers. Foul at the sled and a trooper. Mace ate some troopers, GOWK ate a trooper, even the jawa (from lobot) ate a trooper. Mace ate another with reflect (+ reroll) and took some damage. Next round used Mace to eat some more troopers and Needa bit it trying to help a trooper get damage through while Mace was a normal 22 D. Mace ate another trooper with Reflect and failed his other reflect save to take more damage. Then took some more damage but not dead yet. Foul ate another guy. GOWK ate another guy. Rep won init and Mace ate some more guys. Commanders were finally able to start combining fire to finish off Mace and start working on Foul. Foul/GOWK/Jawa all ate more dudes. Troopers were nearly gone but still had the commanders to worry about. The Slavers got some damage through on GOWK and Foul finally died, but all the troopers were dead and one of the slavers was dead. GOWK won init to finish off the other slaver and then it was GOWK against the commanders. GOWK cleaned up without too much trouble (down to 60HP).

Had I set it up correctly I think it would have gone even better as I think I could have taken out at least 3 troopers (maybe more with Momaw and made it a faster and easier game. Overall the saves (Reflect/SSM) were pretty balanced and were about 50/50 like they should be.

I also think that if the Daala squad is outactivated it could be in for some trouble. I think Stealth and Blue could do a number on it (Blaster Barrage at the end of round followed by another at the top of the round all needing 6s to kill the raxus). The problem is that if you put in Ozzel you have to either take out 3 troopers or take out Needa. While I don't think Needa is key by any means, he is more useful than he looks plus Ozzel makes some matchups (yobuck specifically) that much worse.

I certainly want to play some more games with Daala against other stuff before I fully come down on this issue, and maybe I can get some actual games in against UrbanShmi (or Tim B or Jake K or someone), and I certainly know that we will discuss this more at FrostyCon in another week and a half and I know I will take a squad or 2 to play against people there in order to try and get a my own handle on whether I think Daala (or any of her components) are borken or not.

what does a snowtrooper squad look like? I already felt like I was tight on points so don't really know where you find the points for the snow commander. I suppose you could drop Needa and something for him. But then you still don't have act control. Very interesting indeed.

Put me in the camp to do something about it now instead of waiting for regionals. I have had a lot of fun playing Daala. (Maybe too much fun if you ask Andy.) But I can't think of a good way to beat it and if I did it would be a hate squad. I guess that's the definition of a restricted meta. I kind of assumed other people would beat it with ABM, Lancers, etc. But it doesn't seem to be panning out that way.

Thanks very much for doing all that testing, Jason!

I do agree with Flying Arrow's assessment that the Snow Troopers are better in some matchups, with their higher attacks (and 20hp vs 10hp). I think Dr Daman's build handles other things better - that movement helps against things like Lancer, and it probably beats most other Daala squads.

The build I used against Darth Moore on Sunday had access to Ozzel (I swapped out GARY for him). I was able to defeat Stealth and Blue (the Morrigan version) easily.
--Snow Swarm--
27 Admiral Daala
20 Admiral Piett
16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon
16 Grand Admiral Rulf Yage
13 Snowtrooper Commander
11 Snowtrooper Officer
8 Mas Amedda
9 Ugnaught Demo * 3
8 R7 Astromech Droid
8 Zygerrian Slaver
8 Raxus Prime Trooper x2
56 Snowtrooper x14
(200pts. 28 activations)

I think it's weaker than FlyingArrow and Dr Daman's builds above, but access to Ozzel is a useful adjustment in some metas.

I don't think any Daala build can handle everything, but I think if you have multiple Snow Trooper/Raxus builds floating round with good players in tournaments, I think they're going to dominate overall, restrict the meta, and cause NPEs for otherwise solid squads.

Yes, Jason, thanks so much for the testing!

TheHutts, note that the squad I posted above has all the range that Dr Daman's squad has. It just can't do it repeatedly, and the Raxus Prime is only +9/30 instead of +13/40 (+17 with reroll). But 2 Raxus Primes, 2 Zygerrians, and Flim has the same reach. I haven't felt the need to deep strike more than once or twice per game. Although versus Daala in a mirror match it would be more important, which is why I do think all Raxus is better in the mirror match. Go back and hit all the commanders back there one after the other.

I think the toughest squadbuilding decision is Flim or Pellaeon. Flim is so powerful for deep strikes but Pellaeon is so powerful to let you swap in/out all the other useful commanders as needed.

we certainly need more data at this point. I mean is this just a case of Daala being a true tier one squad and we just don't know how to properly deal with it at this point? or is there something truly overpowered that may require some action. We have certainly been down this road before from Boba, BH to GOWK to Bastilla to Poggle, etc.

Dr Daman, have you ever played it against a Yobuck squad? or a corran horn squad? or Gowk/Mace? Any of the things that on paper should give it problems? I read your report about the naboo, and would def like to explore that more to see if it was just a mistake by Kez or if Daala beats Naboo pretty regular.

yeah frostycon should be interesting, and even if there isn't much Daala in the main event, there should be plenty of time to try and get a few games in with and against her.

As a scenario, say we had 40 competitive squad options before Daala (that's a total guess). If 2-3 of them can handle Daala relatively easily, another 7-8 can hold their own, and Daala wipes the floor of the other 30, is that enough to say that Daala is having a negative impact? Even if she isn't beating everything and won't go and win every Regional (and a squad that's neither purely Daala nor anti-Daala still has the chance to sneak through and win), if she's taking enough other squads out, is it better if she's dealt with in some way? I think we have seen so far that the things that she can beat, she can beat very convincingly.

I know it's a dangerous precedent, and we don't want to just adjust published pieces just because some people are finding them too strong, but if banning or suspending/then/errata'ing a problematic set of pieces (Daala or Zygerrian) makes the whole tournament season more enjoyable and open, I think it should be strongly considered.

In NZ we like to follow American rules and procedures as much as we can. But we've seen Daala do well at 100 (back in September last year), place 3 squads in the top 4 at 150, and so far dominate at 200 in the Hutt Regional and in recent practice games. If she dominates HamilCon next weekend as well, I think we would start to think about making changes to provide an environment in LowerHuttACon (200 points) in April/May so that our players can get on with enjoying the squads they want to play. It's obviously not just my decision, and I have to answer to Dr Daman as NZ overlord and consult with everyone else, but as tournament organiser it's definitely something I'd consider. I just haven't been thinking much about the v-set 7 stuff, because right now I don't think there's much in there that can stand up to Daala.

So how are these squads handling doors? I mean doors that don't have an easy LoS in the enemies backfield. Commander bunkers if you will.

I'd do something like this.
27 Admiral Daala
16 Grand Admiral Rulf Yage
15 Flim
13 Stormtrooper on Repulsor Sled
12 LIN Demolitionmech
11 Snowtrooper Officer
20 Veteran Snowtrooper x2
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
16 Zygerrian Slaver x2
8 Raxus Prime Trooper x2
40 Snowtrooper x10
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 26 activations)

And while this would have the best chance against Yoda on Kybuck, I'm still not sure it's a sure winner. I think Yoda is the foil to all of these Daala squads. This would also handle the mirror match well against RPs.

And I'm seriously considering upgrading the Repulsor Sled to a Speederbike. Strafe would be pretty nice in this.