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thereisnotry
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2015 7:27:44 PM
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Joined: 4/29/2008
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Location: Canada
Darth_Reignir wrote:
atmsalad wrote:
Darth_Reignir wrote:
If casual players are going to unite, we're just going to have to go else where. I don't think the tournament players are concerned with fixing a large and equally important version of the game.

This statement is false, you have no idea how false it is.


You're right, I don't. This community-driven project is so secretive.
You see, this suspicious attitude you've just expressed is a giant part of the reason why a lot of these things are not done in front of everyone! It basically says, "Until you tell me that you're doing something that I like, I have the right to assume that you're either doing nothing or else doing something that I don't like." And so we do a lot of these things out of LOS (lol) because we frankly don't want to deal with the crap...we're busy trying to help the game. RollEyes

I quickly hopped onto this thread to say "Thanks" for the idea and "We're looking at this very thing," and then almost by default I was assumed to be lying. It even took another Balance Team member coming on here to say "Yep, tint is telling the truth" to settle the question of whether or not I was just throwing up a smoke-screen. Really?

For the umpteenth time, here is a clear statement from someone on the Balance Team: We are currently discussing a lot of different changes that people have been talking about. (Hutts said something like 8-10, and that seems pretty accurate.) Some of the changes are already mostly finished, but other things are still in the midst of discussion...and probably most of them will require some intensive playtesting. And all of them will need to be run by the appropriate people (rules gurus, original designers, etc) if they haven't been already. The reason we aren't just slapping a bandaid on these problems is because we don't want to have to come back again 12 months from now to do major surgery.
AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2015 7:33:45 PM
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AndyHatton
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2015 7:41:25 PM
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And I'm not mocking anyone with that clip or anything, I 100% think it is applicable here (and is also my favorite scene from Empire)

If we have patience and don't rush things, we will be able to have a clearer view of the game. Remember Luke's Failure at the Cave! (Because he didn't and he got his hand sliced off)
poppins88
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2015 7:42:08 PM
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thereisnotry wrote:
I quickly hopped onto this thread to say "Thanks" for the idea and "We're looking at this very thing," and then almost by default I was assumed to be lying. It even took another Balance Team member coming on here to say "Yep, tint is telling the truth" to settle the question of whether or not I was just throwing up a smoke-screen. Really?


If you're referring to my question to atmsalad, I did say after Deaths Baine pointed to your post that I somehow missed it. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but I never assumed that you were lying.
thereisnotry
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 8:57:37 AM
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Joined: 4/29/2008
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Location: Canada
poppins88 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
I quickly hopped onto this thread to say "Thanks" for the idea and "We're looking at this very thing," and then almost by default I was assumed to be lying. It even took another Balance Team member coming on here to say "Yep, tint is telling the truth" to settle the question of whether or not I was just throwing up a smoke-screen. Really?


If you're referring to my question to atmsalad, I did say after Deaths Baine pointed to your post that I somehow missed it. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but I never assumed that you were lying.
No worries. :) I wasn't directly referring to any specific post...I just had to go back now to see if it was yours. I didn't have you in mind at all.

The point of my post was simply to say that the suspicious attitude being displayed in this thread (and on these boards in general) by several other people is doing more harm than good.
Darth_Reignir
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 9:01:49 AM
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First of all, your response doesn't make any sense. Second of all, the suspicion is generated from the cronyism and secrecy that's taken place over the years. Don't blame me for how you decided to run this "community," comrade.
thereisnotry
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 9:43:22 AM
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Joined: 4/29/2008
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...and with that, I'm out. Good-bye, BlooMilk.

I'll continue to use the BM squad builder, but I'm done with everything else related to BM...bookmarks removed, etc. Anything that I would've previously communicated here I will now communicate over on SWMGamers: Vassal updates and Q&A, the annual Vassal Regional event, etc. The only thing I'll miss is TheHutts' epic Mini of the Day thread.

It is pointless to try to reason with certain people, and yet I'm tired of feeling like I've been slimed every time I leave a forum discussion. To paraphrase Padme, it is clear to me now that the BlooMilk forums no longer function. I pray that someone will bring sanity and compassion back to these forums.


Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 9:46:17 AM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
Darth_Reignir wrote:
First of all, your response doesn't make any sense. Second of all, the suspicion is generated from the cronyism and secrecy that's taken place over the years. Don't blame me for how you decided to run this "community," comrade.


In my long, long experience with the "community", I have found that it was often a group outside "the elite" that were the instigators in the various fights. Now, not everyone has responded the right way in such situations, but that really doesn't change that being involved is clearly a thankless job. Being involved with the V-sets is in no way justification for the amount of insults that they usually ignore, until there is a break in the blasted. Which usually leads to me doing a clean up on this board.

That said, the point of this thread isn't to attack others. Let's bring it back on topic.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 9:59:09 AM
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Posts: 8,428
Sithborg wrote:
until there is a break in the blasted.


Hilarious. BigGrin
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 10:16:27 AM
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I do forget about the one word in the filter.
SignerJ
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 10:42:09 AM
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Joined: 1/2/2012
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I'm a casual player, and I think that this thread title is unnecessarily aggravating, among other things. Which is why I haven't been participating in this thread, and why I won't participate in it.

Additionally, I'm tired of all of the fighting and all of the troublemaking comments. There are plenty of ways to say something without being argumentative or problematic. I really wish people could just be civil.

(Also, TINT's decision to leave the forums makes me, personally, one step closer to abandoning the forums, too. Fighting doesn't get anywhere, and it affects more than just the "competitive players.")
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 10:57:15 AM
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Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
thereisnotry wrote:
...and with that, I'm out. Good-bye, BlooMilk.

I'll continue to use the BM squad builder, but I'm done with everything else related to BM...bookmarks removed, etc. Anything that I would've previously communicated here I will now communicate over on SWMGamers: Vassal updates and Q&A, the annual Vassal Regional event, etc. The only thing I'll miss is TheHutts' epic Mini of the Day thread.

It is pointless to try to reason with certain people, and yet I'm tired of feeling like I've been slimed every time I leave a forum discussion. To paraphrase Padme, it is clear to me now that the BlooMilk forums no longer function. I pray that someone will bring sanity and compassion back to these forums.




Personally i view this as an out to be honest. As a lot of people in the know want things moved back to SWMGamers anyways. I understand where you are coming from, but you also had people back you up, As i did. To just abandon the forums is just a step in the wrong direction for the death of the game, or at the very least a step towards another big break in the gamers that are left.

honestly i am surprised that the balance committee has not issued a release with a statement along the lines of:

We have heard the complaints, issues, and understand the wants and desires of the community, unfortunately this matter is not as simple as some have laid it out to be. we are looking at ramifications of our actions such as, will the changes to the mouse droid just lead to rodian brutes, or ewoks being turn in the back, will the change to mouse droids providing cover hurt melee more then shooters doing the opposite of what we want.
We are also discussing changing boba fett to 55 points and dropping wrist cable as it is just not needed.
We have also looked into changing scoring, gambit, etc to make 3 point wins more important in an attempt to speed up play..

honestly at least then the community gets a sense of actual ideas being kicked around and steps that may be taken in the future instead of, we are working on it wait til January.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 11:13:53 AM
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Considering they are talking about a lot of stuff, and not necessarily about just one change to said pieces, it is sort of hard to give an accurate break down. And when said discussion doesn't go the way the public is thinking? We are in the same spot all over again.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 11:49:52 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Considering they are talking about a lot of stuff, and not necessarily about just one change to said pieces, it is sort of hard to give an accurate break down. And when said discussion doesn't go the way the public is thinking? We are in the same spot all over again.


oh absolutely on the if things don't go the public's way. but on the accurate break down, man it should be easy to compile a list of talking points, even if it is just here are some of the things being considered then put out some bullet points and it may go a long way to clear a lot of this up.
SithBot
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:00:00 PM
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Joined: 11/1/2014
Posts: 192
I am a casual player, thru and thru.

I think all this fighting can be done away with if there was a thread set up for the balance team to place official statements.

I am with Jen'ari and many others in that a group of people ought to be in charge and make the decisions. However, they need to let everyone know what they are discussing. Am I fine with the "elite" making those decisions? yes, because the balance team consists of Some NZ people, some standard staples, and Spry (who I have read how he works in jawajuice).

I think they can get the job done. But make no mistake, if they are keeping it all secret, the people who are frustrated are going to stay frustrated until the decisions come out, and if the decisions are not to change something without any other information coming thru the pipe than they will remain upset and "not listened to"

I think whoever it was that came out and posted the mouse droid did it perfectly.

So once again.

Make an official thread for only official balance team posts (no one else can post on it, they can post anything they want in their own threads).

This keeps the swmgamers involved with bloomilk in a loosely tied, easy to manage manner.

The discussions on bloomilk should be looked into and people should comment saying things like (I think it was fingersandteeth) good point, I will bring this up...

Everyone else will need to deal with how things are done. But right now no one knows what to expect. which creates frustration
Mando
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:46:14 PM
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Don't really know what to say but I'll try. If the balance team puts out a statement on what they are working about, the same people calling out for them to do so are going to be the same ones that are complaining that their specific concerns weren't included. Maybe this is a case of the frustrated players just being frustrated that they aren't on the balance team to begin with and thus nothing the balance team does or says will appease them the slightest, because if they don't get their way, you can be sure they'll start posts complaining and posting threads voicing their complaints and being conspiratorial and such and leading to a more toxic atmosphere on the forums that already seems like has come into existence within this year. To those people, I urge them to be patient.

There have been so many posts complaining or demanding things be done in the last few months, it is really starting to irritate me, because for a long time this place used to be a forum where ideas could be discussed/debated civilly and responsibly. I'd like it to return to that way, but I don't blame the balance team or the designers from catering to the demands that a few people are pushing very vocally, because honestly nothing is ever enough for some people. The instant gratification social epidemic has reared its ugly head, and I for one don't want Bloomilk turning into what, for example, the Star Wars The Old Republic forums have turned into or pretty much any other major game's forums have turned into. Its bad for the image of the game, and a bad experience for new players just starting in this game.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:58:25 PM
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The balance team has more non-designers than designers. Two NZ players. Two Legends designers. I honestly thought this would be met with open arms by even the loudest complainers. Now - who wants to comment on the latest maps from Christopher West? (Trying desperately to start a conversation actually about the game...)
jak
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 1:08:43 PM
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my hatred of the current mouse droid is about the gameFlapper
General_Grievous
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 1:10:29 PM
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Joined: 1/8/2010
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Mando wrote:
Don't really know what to say but I'll try. If the balance team puts out a statement on what they are working about, the same people calling out for them to do so are going to be the same ones that are complaining that their specific concerns weren't included. Maybe this is a case of the frustrated players just being frustrated that they aren't on the balance team to begin with and thus nothing the balance team does or says will appease them the slightest, because if they don't get their way, you can be sure they'll start posts complaining and posting threads voicing their complaints and being conspiratorial and such and leading to a more toxic atmosphere on the forums that already seems like has come into existence within this year. To those people, I urge them to be patient.

There have been so many posts complaining or demanding things be done in the last few months, it is really starting to irritate me, because for a long time this place used to be a forum where ideas could be discussed/debated civilly and responsibly. I'd like it to return to that way, but I don't blame the balance team or the designers from catering to the demands that a few people are pushing very vocally, because honestly nothing is ever enough for some people. The instant gratification social epidemic has reared its ugly head, and I for one don't want Bloomilk turning into what, for example, the Star Wars The Old Republic forums have turned into or pretty much any other major game's forums have turned into. Its bad for the image of the game, and a bad experience for new players just starting in this game.



+1 the people that are complaining are really hurting the game way more then an annoying or broken piece (which have always been around since even WOTC days). The designers have done an amazing job and brought the game to the most balanced point that it has ever been. So please try to follow the old mantra of if you don't have anything nice to say don't day anything at all. Instead of starting new threads complaining about things or demanding change over something that has been here forever (and that many counters have already been made for and more are being made as we speak) just post an idea on the minis you want to see thread and leave it be. The negative attitude doesn't help anyone.
poppins88
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 3:04:46 PM
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Joined: 9/15/2012
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Mando wrote:
The instant gratification social epidemic has reared its ugly head, and I for one don't want Bloomilk turning into what, for example, the Star Wars The Old Republic forums have turned into or pretty much any other major game's forums have turned into. Its bad for the image of the game, and a bad experience for new players just starting in this game.


This is so true. If I were coming into this game, the way many of us (definitely including myself) at times come across on the forums (especially now) would probably be the single biggest turn-off. Not the number of pieces, or constricted shooter-heavy meta, or the mouse droid problem.

Also, it's funny how much this thread has gotten off topic:
CorranHornsux123 wrote:
Starting a Thread where Casual players can talk about and make changes to the V-set cards and WOTC cards they feel are appropriate.

Heres one everyone wants to see.



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