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General Skywalker and Yoda on Kybuck Options
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 4:42:05 PM
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OMG!!!!! You really don't get what I am saying! I'm not saying that you are wrong. I'm saying that effect is simply not clear. It really can be read in 2 ways!!! All I'm asking for is a clarification in the FAQ's!! Not the pretend one you keep refering too. If this was ruled on years ago? Then why isn't it in the FAQ's??!!!

IT IS NOT UNDER DURGE IN THE FAQ'S!!! IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT THERE!!!!
saeseetiin
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 4:49:46 PM
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Followers who end their move within 6 squares of this character gain Momentum.Key words here end there move.
mmorris
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 5:07:17 PM
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Darth Percocet makes a great point. If the follower only gets momentum AFTER it ends its move how can it use momentum? Momentum requires you to move at least 1 square before being able to use it. If I can't move anymore momentum becomes pointless.


The reason I thought they worded this commander effect the way they did was to keep the effect completly contain within 6 squares of the commander. Basically making it so characters couldn't maintain the momentum ability outside of the 6 square radius. I don't understand how or why it got interpreted in the way everyone is saying.

The possibilty of combining abilities like galloping attack and strafe with this commander effect hasn't been possible until General Skywalker. The only thing players did was run up to enemies, stop, and use momentum to attack them. How could anyone have possibly made a ruling on this before it was even possible??
saeseetiin
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 5:11:14 PM
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its only after there move ends not there turn so if you end your move you get it
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:24:57 AM
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mmorris wrote:
OMG!!!!! You really don't get what I am saying! I'm not saying that you are wrong. I'm saying that effect is simply not clear. It really can be read in 2 ways!!! All I'm asking for is a clarification in the FAQ's!! Not the pretend one you keep refering too. If this was ruled on years ago? Then why isn't it in the FAQ's??!!!

IT IS NOT UNDER DURGE IN THE FAQ'S!!! IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT THERE!!!!


Not all rulings are in the FAQ. You can keep up this discussion, or you can ask about similar situations with Durge and Tsavong Lah. You are applying a sense of future tracking that this game really doesn't use. They do not get Momentum until after they fufill the requirements, like all CE's.

Also, Percocet confused move with turn, so his point is invalid.
Draconarius
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:37:41 AM
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mmorris wrote:
Darth Percocet makes a great point. If the follower only gets momentum AFTER it ends its move how can it use momentum? Momentum requires you to move at least 1 square before being able to use it. If I can't move anymore momentum becomes pointless.


As Sithborg said, Perc has 'move' mistaken with 'turn'. You can still attack after ending your 'move' action. Once you end your 'move' action, you gain Momentum from Anakin.

Momentum (If this character has moved this turn, it gets +4 Attack and +10 Damage against adjacent enemies)

Emphasis mime. Once you fulfill all the conditions of Anakin's CE (ie. end your move action) and gain Momentum, you check to see if you have met its conditions. As long as you moved earlier that turn, you get the bonus.

Quote:
The possibilty of combining abilities like galloping attack and strafe with this commander effect hasn't been possible until General Skywalker. The only thing players did was run up to enemies, stop, and use momentum to attack them. How could anyone have possibly made a ruling on this before it was even possible??


It's a little something called common sense, and in a way a ruling on this has been made, since some of Durge and Tsavong's followers had or could get Mobile Attack (which creates a similiar situation). Honestly, I don't see how anyone can get confused on this. The CE clearly states that you must end your move within [range] of Anakin to gain Momentum. If you're still moving (ie. Gallop, Strafe), then you haven't met the conditions and you will not get Momentum. The wording of the Commander Effect leaves no other interpretation.
AdmiralAckbar
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:53:09 AM
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I have to agree with Bill, you must meet all requirements to use a Commander Effect. Mas will bypass the range limit however you still only receive it when you end your move.
I also don't see why you MUST USE ALL CAPS! THERE IS NO REASON TO GET ANGRY WHEN PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO HELP!

billiv15
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 2:25:27 AM
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mmorris wrote:
OMG!!!!! You really don't get what I am saying! I'm not saying that you are wrong. I'm saying that effect is simply not clear. It really can be read in 2 ways!!! All I'm asking for is a clarification in the FAQ's!! Not the pretend one you keep refering too. If this was ruled on years ago? Then why isn't it in the FAQ's??!!!

IT IS NOT UNDER DURGE IN THE FAQ'S!!! IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT THERE!!!!


Sorry, I thought it was. I'm probably assuming that because I remember threads about it back in the CS and Universe days. No need to get upset about it. Arguing for wanting it in the FAQ and arguing that it's not right unless they get it in there are really not what I am doing in this thread. If you want that, which is nothing more than a biproduct of you having read it wrong and being embarrassed by that, which is fine, but that belongs in a pm to nickname, or as a suggestion made on WotC Rules site. Shouting it on bloomilk does nothing more than show you are being full of sour grapes.

You've been given the answer and told the precedents that answer it for you. I apologize for saying it was in the FAQ when it isn't (Like I said, I thought it was). But it really isn't one of the more difficult CEs to understand. I could point you to the indirect FAQ stuff that talks about what you need to do to gain a CE (that is meet all conditions), which is in there, and that would be enough.

As for why it's not, well you would have to ask Nickname, who writes the FAQ. Certainly he does not put every question in the FAQ. Only the frequently asked and confusing ones. Does this one qualify? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, I don't see why you are arguing that point with me, as I have absolutely 0 to do with that anyway.
mmorris
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 3:04:55 AM
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Sorry about the all caps in my post. It's like 1 against 20 over here! Lol! I was just trying to prove my point. I am fine with agreeing to disagree and I will play the game the way you guys interpret the rule.
maverick
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 3:14:59 AM
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Personally I think he should keep momentum if he ended his move within 6 on his last turn as it says he gains momentum, but unfortunately it goes on a turn by turn basis. It is rather poorly worded in my opinion, and yours obviously, but it is what it is I guess.
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 4:20:36 AM
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maverick wrote:
Personally I think he should keep momentum if he ended his move within 6 on his last turn as it says he gains momentum, but unfortunately it goes on a turn by turn basis. It is rather poorly worded in my opinion, and yours obviously, but it is what it is I guess.


Not really an issue, because Momentum require you to move, and once you start moving again, the CE is lost until you end your move again. The wording works for Momentum, just not anyother ability that I can think of.
maverick
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 5:09:00 AM
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My opinion. It may be wrong but it is my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

The way I read it, when he ends his move, he gains momentum. Therefore he actually has momentum, thus he can use it when he activates again. Like when someone gains twin attack they have twin attack.

I know that is not the case, but I think thats how it reads.

That is all im saying.
billiv15
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 6:33:45 AM
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This one is in the FAQ.

Durge

Q: How long does Durge's commander effect last?

A: Momentum gained from Durge lasts only until the end of the turn in which the character moved. Of course, it could end its move within 6 squares of Durge on its subsequent turns, and gain Momentum again during those turns.

As Scott stated, even if you read it your way, it's a moot point. The moment he moves again (on a subsequent turn) he no longer has the CE anyway, because he hasn't ended that movement. And momentum itself requires moving at least one space so the two are impossible to have together.

Oh and for those that think this is a new interaction, it's not. Durge allowed it with the Ewok Hanglider and I believe there was another before that that I can't think of at the moment. You always had to end your move to gain the CE, and it always ends at the end of that character's turn.
maverick
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 7:42:41 AM
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I understand how it works. Did I say that I thought my interpretation was right? It's not.

I have read the FAQ, the part about Durges commander effect and all, I know it only applies when a character ends its move, your trying to prove something to me that I already know to be true.

No disrespect intended to Sithborg or yourself, as you both know more about this game than I care to, I was simply stating my opinion on what I think it should be.

And now because my opinions are not welcome, I'm gonna exit the discussion.

Later,
Maverick

BTW, Mmorris, creative squad. With a bit of tweaking it could work well I think.
billiv15
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 8:34:14 AM
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maverick wrote:


And now because my opinions are not welcome, I'm gonna exit the discussion.




You need to take a second to recognize why others would post certain things. Sithborg and I have one basic motivation (there are more, but this is primary in this case) - to make sure everyone understands the rule, what the rule is, and where it comes from. Nothing more, nothing less. It has absolutely nothing to do with you at all. You made a comment that seems to have been edited out that I was responding to. Something along the lines of there is no proof or something like that.

Either way, I am here to make sure people know what they are talking about. I don't care what your opinion is, or Sithborg's, or mine for that matter on how it should work. That isn't my motivation. So before you throw another tantrum and leave the room storming out as if I have mistreated you, I expect an apology for your contributing to a very negative forum attitude. And further, for trying to make me look like a bad guy when you have no clue how to put yourself in other people's shoes even for minute.

This isn't a debate on how it should or should not work, it was a debate on how it does work. At least for me, that is the only reason to respond to it at all.

As for the squad, it needs a little refinement considering the OP wasn't aware of how the rule works when he made it, but it isn't a bad start. General Anakin and Yodabuck should be a pretty decent combo, even given that it has less power than he originally thought.
maverick
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 8:49:32 AM
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To me, it seems like you were dismissing my opinion.

None of my posts have been edited by me, what they say is what they have always said, unless somebody else edited them, and I can't see why they would have. And to assume that I edited implies that I said something I regret, or wouldn't like others to see after the fact.

In my posts, I stated how it officially works, and how I think it should work. Any time I stated my opinion on how it should work, it was treated like my opinion doesn't matter. I know my opinion doesn't make a difference on official rulings, but when I state it I don't appreciate it being so easily thrown aside as trash. Perhaps I could have used more effective words to explain what I was trying to.

And I am sorry if I made you appear to be that bad guy. That was never my intent. It has never been my intent, nor will it ever be. That is not the kind of person I am.

Volvagia14
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 9:36:13 AM
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Maybe what the problem is, is that people are thinking that when you attack while galloping you stop your move to attack, and then you start to move again. I can see how someone can be confused if they are thinking this. Yes? No?
adminsidious
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 10:01:18 AM
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*idly goes to watch this threads new sister on the wizards forum, wonders if it's going to be multiple pages of yelling about nothing after it is explained there the same way it was here*
Draconarius
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 12:43:38 PM
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Volvagia14 wrote:
Maybe what the problem is, is that people are thinking that when you attack while galloping you stop your move to attack, and then you start to move again. I can see how someone can be confused if they are thinking this. Yes? No?


I can see where the confusion comes from, yes. However, a close read of Galloping attack should get rid of the confusion. It does state that the attacks happen while the character is moving.

Galloping Attack (As this character moves, it can attack each adjacent enemy, +4 Attack; this turn, this character cannot attack any enemy twice and cannot move directly back into a space it has just left. This ability is usable only on this character's turn.)
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 2:30:34 PM
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maverick wrote:
To me, it seems like you were dismissing my opinion.


Rulings and rules interactions are not a place for opinions except for maybe 2 people (even then, one has a lot more weight than the other). Rulings are black and white, there is no wiggle room. Your opinion on how it should be is wrong, thus needs to be shot down to prevent others from thinking that is the correct opinion.

If that offends, than I apologize. As my title shows, rules are a bit of my specialty.
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