|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
billiv15 wrote:
Imperials have the ability to beat the lancer, their tough match up is NR with Han. Republic can beat the lancer, but they struggle against OR. It's pretty much all the way through like that. Lancer will be the gatekeeper and could win, but I'd be willing to bet it won't, because most players are well aware of the gatekeeper. Everyone knows if you can't play with a lancer squad, you need to pick a different squad. And unlike times in the past, there are top tier squads that can compete, not just straight up foil squads for that particular match, that struggle against everything else. It should be a very fun tournament this year, but the winner will be determined by luck of the match ups and player skill in the bad ones for your squad.
It's an interesting point you bring up Bill, and I do agree to a certain extent. Lancers are the gatekeeper, and therefore have to be taken into account. Honestly - I think after you hit the top 8, (And even a few more past that) - it's a bit of a crap shoot. Map rolls can easily make the difference. Match-ups will always be important. One mistake can kill ya. Once you get to the best of the best - it takes a little luck on top of being good. So who knows what faction will win. I do see a bit of rock/paper/scissors going on though. In general OR beats IMPs, NR beats OR, and Imps beat NR (especially with Palleon). Anyway - a lot of factors exist, but I think Seps can overcome "bad" match-ups better than people realize, where as the other factions face virtual auto-losses vs certain squads.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
Darth_Jim wrote:Well Tim, I am a little biased as well. Last year at GenCon I played Rukh twice over the course of the weekend. I don't think there is anyone in our community who would say that I am a better player... or even close to as good a player as he is. The one game where our squads were relatively equal in strength... or at least no bad matchups in that game, he controlled the game from the start. While it wasn't a rout, after the first few rounds I could see the writing on the wall. He won in the manner he should have. The other game pitted my Vader Scourge squad against his double lancer. Without getting into too much detail, I set up well and employed a sound opening strategy. In a couple of rounds he had lost both lancers and I still had everything. From that point on he outplayed me significantly, but I played well enough to close out the win. My point? If a mid-level player such as myself can beat a top player like Rukh (a common sight in the final 8 each year at GenCon) just because of the matchup, it is something to be considered. But, because I also see Tim in that elite category of players, I will allow that I may have overstated my point. TimmerB123 wrote:Darth_Jim wrote:I also think it will be NR. Lancer squads are great, but have a couple of bad matchups. Even the best Lancer players will tell you that they need a little luck on the draw to avoid them. Lancers are so good in most games that you have to include them in the conversation. I respectfully disagree. I do know a little something about lancer squads. I think there is no match-up they cannot win. Of course there are ones that are practically an auto-win for the lancer squad, and ones that are a tough, fight it out may the best player win match-ups. But if done right, it can beat all. I have beaten every faction in tough regional games run by top players with lancer squads. If I can beat a nom Bombs squad (one of the worst match-ups) 4 times in 2 regionals, and multiple NR squads with disruptive and reposters (another bad matchup), Mando death-shot squads, and beat the all famous Solo Charge run by none other than it's creator Deri Morgan (fingersandteeth) at a regional, I can't think of what I would consider myself "lucky" avoiding. In fact - I credit this years Chicago Regional win (I played Imperial Stealth n' Blue) to the fact that I didn't have to face any lancers (did not show at Chicago) or Lou's Republic Anistap Yobuck swap (which I lucked out and didn't face). But to be fair - I am biased. I didn't just drink the Kool-aide, I MADE THE KOOL-AIDE! Fair point Jim. Eric Frost is no doubt an elite player, though I don't think you give yourself enough credit. ;) But I will say that Double Lancer without San is practically an entirely different squad type. If it's anything like Jason's (Urbanjedi) infamous squad - it is about as different as you can get. It is played VERY differently, they are almost as opposite as you can get. I have been saying for a long time that San + activations are the way to go with a Lancer, and I think between Graham and I, we have gone a long way to proving that. Anyway - long story short - it would have been a fully different game with a SAN HILL lancer squad where they could out-activate your Vader Scourge squad, and even bring in an MTB to nerf Thrawn's MT. I would play that match-up without much fear any day of the week.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 907
Location: Central Pa
|
TimmerB123 wrote:Darth_Jim wrote:Well Tim, I am a little biased as well. Last year at GenCon I played Rukh twice over the course of the weekend. I don't think there is anyone in our community who would say that I am a better player... or even close to as good a player as he is. The one game where our squads were relatively equal in strength... or at least no bad matchups in that game, he controlled the game from the start. While it wasn't a rout, after the first few rounds I could see the writing on the wall. He won in the manner he should have. The other game pitted my Vader Scourge squad against his double lancer. Without getting into too much detail, I set up well and employed a sound opening strategy. In a couple of rounds he had lost both lancers and I still had everything. From that point on he outplayed me significantly, but I played well enough to close out the win. My point? If a mid-level player such as myself can beat a top player like Rukh (a common sight in the final 8 each year at GenCon) just because of the matchup, it is something to be considered. But, because I also see Tim in that elite category of players, I will allow that I may have overstated my point. TimmerB123 wrote:Darth_Jim wrote:I also think it will be NR. Lancer squads are great, but have a couple of bad matchups. Even the best Lancer players will tell you that they need a little luck on the draw to avoid them. Lancers are so good in most games that you have to include them in the conversation. I respectfully disagree. I do know a little something about lancer squads. I think there is no match-up they cannot win. Of course there are ones that are practically an auto-win for the lancer squad, and ones that are a tough, fight it out may the best player win match-ups. But if done right, it can beat all. I have beaten every faction in tough regional games run by top players with lancer squads. If I can beat a nom Bombs squad (one of the worst match-ups) 4 times in 2 regionals, and multiple NR squads with disruptive and reposters (another bad matchup), Mando death-shot squads, and beat the all famous Solo Charge run by none other than it's creator Deri Morgan (fingersandteeth) at a regional, I can't think of what I would consider myself "lucky" avoiding. In fact - I credit this years Chicago Regional win (I played Imperial Stealth n' Blue) to the fact that I didn't have to face any lancers (did not show at Chicago) or Lou's Republic Anistap Yobuck swap (which I lucked out and didn't face). But to be fair - I am biased. I didn't just drink the Kool-aide, I MADE THE KOOL-AIDE! Fair point Jim. Eric Frost is no doubt an elite player, though I don't think you give yourself enough credit. ;) But I will say that Double Lancer without San is practically an entirely different squad type. If it's anything like Jason's (Urbanjedi) infamous squad - it is about as different as you can get. It is played VERY differently, they are almost as opposite as you can get. I have been saying for a long time that San + activations are the way to go with a Lancer, and I think between Graham and I, we have gone a long way to proving that. Anyway - long story short - it would have been a fully different game with a SAN HILL lancer squad where they could out-activate your Vader Scourge squad, and even bring in an MTB to nerf Thrawn's MT. I would play that match-up without much fear any day of the week. Thanks, Tim. I agree that the two squads, save the fact that they use a few of the same pieces... play entirely differently. And I agree with Bill when he says it is a gatekeeper and that preparing for any of the lancer squads is a must. Were I going to GenCon this year I would be in a 'beat 'em or join 'em' mentality regarding the lancer and be hard-pressed to find a squad falling into the former that I'd be comfortable with. And maybe... I should get my lancers back out again and play 'em so I could get as comfortable as you are going up against anything.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
LoL, of course that being said - I can almost guarantee that I will go 4-2 or 3-3 and just miss making the top 8. It's sorta my thing.
And as has been said before - it's not an easy squad to run. There are even top players that can't run it because it's completely contrary to the style they normally play. Graham is obviously a front-runner for people who know how to run it and could go all the way.
I would agree with Bill and say that 2 seps squads will make the top 8, but what happens from there is anyone's guess.
In fact - here's my top 8 picks:
3 NR
2 Seps
1 Imps
1 Republic
1 Rebel
PS - Jim I will miss seeing you at GenCon. We'll have to get a vassal game in sometime.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008
Posts: 1,288
|
Alright guys, we cracked the meta this weekend, and I'm changing my vote to Rebels. No, I won't tell you what squad, but it will definitely be surprising to see some of the pieces that are involved. People (myself included at times) seem to forget just how deep that Rebel bench is when the same pieces get played all the time...
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
|
It's a Trap! 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 168
|
Echo24 wrote:Alright guys, we cracked the meta this weekend, and I'm changing my vote to Rebels. No, I won't tell you what squad, but it will definitely be surprising to see some of the pieces that are involved. People (myself included at times) seem to forget just how deep that Rebel bench is when the same pieces get played all the time... lol...that is quite a post. So, a unique rebel squad that competes with the top 4 factions? Well, there are several decent "Han Solo" figures going all the way back to Universe. So, I am not terribly surprised. Still, in 200 pt tourneys, I think is gonna be very hard for a good rebel squad not to use Crix, and ERCs.
|
|
Rank: Wookiee Hunter AT-ST
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/3/2011
Posts: 58
|
Having just read Bastillas card, I'm now going with what used to be the MOST horrid faction of the game, Old Republic.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
Echo24 wrote:Alright guys, we cracked the meta this weekend, and I'm changing my vote to Rebels. No, I won't tell you what squad, but it will definitely be surprising to see some of the pieces that are involved. People (myself included at times) seem to forget just how deep that Rebel bench is when the same pieces get played all the time... Yeah, there are some really good Leia's in the faction. With the Mouse Swarms, the Lawnmower has some potential. Good ol' Han Rebel Hero is still pretty good.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 1,195
|
Echo24 wrote:Alright guys, we cracked the meta this weekend, and I'm changing my vote to Rebels. No, I won't tell you what squad, but it will definitely be surprising to see some of the pieces that are involved. People (myself included at times) seem to forget just how deep that Rebel bench is when the same pieces get played all the time... Let's just say we get really good ideas when we are drunk at 2am. The best part is we wrote it down so we could remember it lol.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
njarnagin wrote:Echo24 wrote:Alright guys, we cracked the meta this weekend, and I'm changing my vote to Rebels. No, I won't tell you what squad, but it will definitely be surprising to see some of the pieces that are involved. People (myself included at times) seem to forget just how deep that Rebel bench is when the same pieces get played all the time... lol...that is quite a post. So, a unique rebel squad that competes with the top 4 factions? Well, there are several decent "Han Solo" figures going all the way back to Universe. So, I am not terribly surprised. Still, in 200 pt tourneys, I think is gonna be very hard for a good rebel squad not to use Crix, and ERCs. You could avoid ERCs with Page granting twin to other Commandos, but Crix seems like the best way to major damage output in the Rebels. 100 damage on the move from melee Wookiee Commandos. 100 damage from a stationary Bothan Commando. (210 if you can follow it up immediately with another attack granted by Princess Leia!) 80 damage from a mobile Veteran Commando. You'd lose the super-Override without ERCs, but yeah, hard to avoid Crix.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
|
Apparently the DD Twins listened to my advice on Rebels last week on the show :)
I know everyone is still obsessed with Crix and ERCs, but I can tell you, in this meta, they aren't the answer in the Rebel faction. Go deepeer.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,682
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
|
PooDoo wrote:Having just read Bastillas card, I'm now going with what used to be the MOST horrid faction of the game, Old Republic. that 1 character changes the game.  you either have a squad that uses her, have a squad that can kill her
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Against Bastila, it seems like the best option is to out-activate (which seems pretty easy in most Rebel builds with cheap Rebel pieces, even with Dodonna being nullified), then hit hard with Opportunist after Bastila's Meditation has worn off at the end of every second round. Therefore, Crix isn't much help, but I would have through that Han Smuggler and A&E Leia would still be useful.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
billiv15 wrote:Apparently the DD Twins listened to my advice on Rebels last week on the show :)
I know everyone is still obsessed with Crix and ERCs, but I can tell you, in this meta, they aren't the answer in the Rebel faction. Go deepeer. So what faction are you playing in the Championship Bill?
|
|
Rank: Kel Dor Bounty Hunter
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/14/2009
Posts: 13
|
My vote goes to Old reuplic, But I would be more than happy if any of this factions win: Vongs, mandalorians or seps , But I know deep in my heart that rebels had a good chance to win (like always) sadly.  , I like old rebulplic because that nasty bastila shan and would be great that someone comes up with a competitive squad with her, but I know that rebels or Imps, Old reuplic will get easily out-activated... especially with that ridiculous combo : gha nackt+lobot+ mouse droids...  .
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
So 4 people got it right!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/7/2008
Posts: 400
|
Details?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 3/27/2008
Posts: 832
|
Sithborg wrote:I went longshot, with OR. Bastilla is going to be a spoiler, lol.
I see quite a few Seps and Rebels in the tops, though. swinefeld wrote:I'm pulling for OR as well, though that is more of a wish than a prediction.
I would love to see a couple (or more) squads from the "lesser" factions make the top 8.
PooDoo wrote:Having just read Bastillas card, I'm now going with what used to be the MOST horrid faction of the game, Old Republic. OR was the big winner. Don't know anything else but my guess is Bastilla's boardwide Disruptive played a part.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
This was Jester007's regional winning squad in May for Virginia - I wonder if it was similar to his GenCon squad?
33 Bastilla Shan JM
27 Lobot
27 Jedi Seer
27 Jedi Battlemasters x3
14 Old Republic Diplomat
08 R7 Astromech Droid
03 Mouse Droid x2
03 Ugnaught Demolitionist
|
|
|
Guest |