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donnyrides wrote:@shmi15 - I playtested it and it wasn't as powerful as you are imagining it. It comes with a pretty high price tag and doesn't put out that much damage. The trick to him is you just don't attack the one he is protecting. Problem solved. He will make 1 protection strike, but then he is out in the open and available to be beaten into the ground with ease. The intent of this entire set of V14 Vong is pretty clear, they are trying to entice people to play something other than bugs or DL warrior mobs. I don't see anything wrong with trying to push Carr warriors into casual play. No way this push anything new into competitive play though. the problem is never solved when the answer is.... don't attack your opponents piece lol.
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Just attack him first.
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I don't see a problem with it. It is only for a single unique ally which is declared at the start of the game, and he doesn't do crazy damage with his counterattack. I see it as a small help for Domain Carr and a bodyguard for your beatstick vong.
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TimmerB123 wrote:Just attack him first. Just attack the pieces with reserves first and your set also? so I should ignore the high attacking, damage dealing Vong, and beat this guy first because why? Oh, because another ability was created that prevents me from attacking the actual problem in the squad. Kudos to making Unique options. Non Kudos for doing it with an NPE.
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Except the character with reserves can hide in the back, this character does absolutely no good unless he's up in the mix.
Therefore it takes skill. It's a battle of wits for both players' character placement and movement, to try and force your opponent into bad positions that you can capitalize on.
Which is, you know - kinda the entire point of our game.
Unlike other abilities that directly punish you for attacking a character, this ability can be out maneuvered with skill.
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TimmerB123 wrote: Except the character with reserves can hide in the back, this character does absolutely no good unless he's up in the mix.
Therefore it takes skill. It's a battle of wits for both players' character placement and movement, to try and force your opponent into bad positions that you can capitalize on.
Which is, you know - kinda the entire point of our game.
Unlike other abilities that directly punish you for attacking a character, this ability can be out maneuvered with skill. this can be outmaneuvered by killing this guy first... that's really about it. I am just against the idea, I don't think it is game breaking or anything, but he can attack back for 40 damage pretty easily which kind of sucks.
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In playtesting it really was harder to set up than it appears. You usually get one hit back, and then you get smoked. Yes the one hit can be significant, but sturdier characters can take that no problem.
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I think some people will like tonight's previews from the SHNN.
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Seriously guys, I'm getting tired of having to find these myself maybe I should listen to the show  Sith Holocron Sith 8/30 15 pts -- HP -- DEF -- ATK -- DMG Affinity (Imperial/Separatist Dark Allure (Replaces attacks: move 1 character with a force rating within 6 squares adjacent to this character, save 11 negates.) Holocron (see Jedi Holocron - can't move, can't gain/spend Force points, etc, etc.) Sith Lore (The ally chosen by Holocron may spend this character's Force points if it does not spend its own that turn. While this character is unactivated, characters with a Force rating within 6 squares gain Force Renewal 1) [they said something might be missing? It might say "allies" instead of "characters"] Force 6 Master of the Force 2 Force Curse (Force 1, cancel a save re-roll by an enemy within 6 squares) Interesting piece... I like MotF on a Holocron!
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#15/30
Lor San Taco... Tekka...
18 pts
60 HP
18 DEF
+0 ATK
0 DMG
Unique
Resistance
Evade
Faith in the Force (This character and allies with a lightsaber within 2 squares cannot be prevented from spending Force points, or be forced to spend extra Force points, their Force powers cannot be cancelled or prevented from affecting characters) [W00T! EAT THAT, VONG]
Jedi Bodyguard
Noble Sacrifice (Unique New Republic ally)
Pathfinder
Commander Effect:
An ally whose name contains Luke Skywalker sets up anywhere on your half of the battle map.
At the end of his turn, one Unique New Republic ally within 6 squares can immediately move up to speed toward an ally who counts as Luke Skywalker.
Folks, listen to SHNN, at least starting about 20 mins in. This piece has a TON of hidden potential, and most of it went over my head until the SHNN guys explained it.
Luke Skywalker, Master of the Order can start in gambit. Come at me, bro.
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100 point luke in gambit to start..... wow.....18 square range 120 damage....looks like lor, and luke will meet the muun, dodonna and as many acts as I can get.
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CorellianComedian wrote: #15/30
Lor San Taco... Tekka...
18 pts
60 HP
18 DEF
+0 ATK
0 DMG
Unique
Resistance
Evade
Faith in the Force (This character and allies with a lightsaber within 2 squares cannot be prevented from spending Force points, or be forced to spend extra Force points, their Force powers cannot be cancelled or prevented from affecting characters) [W00T! EAT THAT, VONG]
Jedi Bodyguard
Noble Sacrifice (Unique New Republic ally)
Pathfinder
Commander Effect:
An ally whose name contains Luke Skywalker sets up anywhere on your half of the battle map.
At the end of his turn, one Unique New Republic ally within 6 squares can immediately move up to speed toward an ally who counts as Luke Skywalker.
Folks, listen to SHNN, at least starting about 20 mins in. This piece has a TON of hidden potential, and most of it went over my head until the SHNN guys explained it.
Luke Skywalker, Master of the Order can start in gambit. Come at me, bro. I am kind of scared of the Luke in gambit with Callista and Keeper of the Whills, was that play tested? I love Faith in the Force, I love that it is a Vong and Ysalamiri counter, just hate that it is on this guy... love the second part of the CE where people can move up the board. NR is trying to get quick with this character and the Vector Prime person. I wonder how much play it will see, the "up the board" characters. Does make it more interesting if you can force the opponent to meet you.
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CorellianComedian wrote:Seriously guys, I'm getting tired of having to find these myself maybe I should listen to the show Sith Holocron Sith 8/30 15 pts -- HP -- DEF -- ATK -- DMG Affinity (Imperial/Separatist Dark Allure (Replaces attacks: move 1 character with a force rating within 6 squares adjacent to this character, save 11 negates.) Holocron (see Jedi Holocron - can't move, can't gain/spend Force points, etc, etc.) Sith Lore (The ally chosen by Holocron may spend this character's Force points if it does not spend its own that turn. While this character is unactivated, characters with a Force rating within 6 squares gain Force Renewal 1) [they said something might be missing? It might say "allies" instead of "characters"] Force 6 Master of the Force 2 Force Curse (Force 1, cancel a save re-roll by an enemy within 6 squares) Interesting piece... I like MotF on a Holocron! Not overly impressed with this piece at all.... Why is there a save for movement within the Sith, and not the Jedi? And I am not sure if I would ever use Force Curse. Awesome, Awesome name... but reminds me of Force Alter.... Which never sees play. What was this piece good with in playtesting?
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shmi15 wrote: Not overly impressed with this piece at all.... Why is there a save for movement within the Sith, and not the Jedi? And I am not sure if I would ever use Force Curse. Awesome, Awesome name... but reminds me of Force Alter.... Which never sees play. What was this piece good with in playtesting? Dark Allure moves "Characters" (ally or enemy) 6 squares and generates AoOs. Sith Holocron could potentially pull an enemy past several allies and force multiple AoOs. Force Alter forces an enemy to reroll its attack. If they have a high attack that probably won't help. Force Curse CANCELS an enemy's attempted reroll of a Save. They don't get to reroll that failed Avoid Defeat, Dejem So, Evade, Block, SSM, ect. Save roll. Sith Holocron was great to play with plenty of characters especially ones without MotF2. Kylo Ren, Darth Cognus, General Grievous, Hero of Hypori . . . great stuff.
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DarkDracul wrote:shmi15 wrote: Not overly impressed with this piece at all.... Why is there a save for movement within the Sith, and not the Jedi? And I am not sure if I would ever use Force Curse. Awesome, Awesome name... but reminds me of Force Alter.... Which never sees play. What was this piece good with in playtesting? Dark Allure moves "Characters" (ally or enemy) 6 squares and generates AoOs. Sith Holocron could potentially pull an enemy past several allies and force multiple AoOs. Force Alter forces an enemy to reroll its attack. If they have a high attack that probably won't help. Force Curse CANCELS an enemy's attempted reroll of a Save. They don't get to reroll that failed Avoid Defeat, Dejem So, Evade, Block, SSM, ect. Save roll. Sith Holocron was great to play with plenty of characters especially ones without MotF2. Kylo Ren, Darth Cognus, General Grievous, Hero of Hypori . . . great stuff. Definitely great paired with Darth Baras too. As for the movement breaker, forcing an enemy to move not only provokes AoOs, but simply can make a character move closer so your big threats can reach it and attack it, or bring them to you so you can use a double/triple attack, pull them around a corner so allies can shoot them, lure them away from weaker allies, pull them away from a door so it closes or next to a door so it opens, pull them away from their allies that have bodyguard/tow cable, etc or pull them out of CE range. Moving an enemy is VERY powerful. Even if you only move an ally, moving an extra six squares is massively useful.
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DarkDracul wrote:shmi15 wrote: Not overly impressed with this piece at all.... Why is there a save for movement within the Sith, and not the Jedi? And I am not sure if I would ever use Force Curse. Awesome, Awesome name... but reminds me of Force Alter.... Which never sees play. What was this piece good with in playtesting? Dark Allure moves "Characters" (ally or enemy) 6 squares and generates AoOs. Sith Holocron could potentially pull an enemy past several allies and force multiple AoOs. Force Alter forces an enemy to reroll its attack. If they have a high attack that probably won't help. Force Curse CANCELS an enemy's attempted reroll of a Save. They don't get to reroll that failed Avoid Defeat, Dejem So, Evade, Block, SSM, ect. Save roll. Sith Holocron was great to play with plenty of characters especially ones without MotF2. Kylo Ren, Darth Cognus, General Grievous, Hero of Hypori . . . great stuff. I personally think that evil Bastilla could be good, especially with Darth Baras. Renewal, diplomat, surprise move for 12, sorcery, curse, and turn to the dark side doesn't cancel aggressive negotiations.
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TimmerB123 wrote:DarkDracul wrote:shmi15 wrote: Not overly impressed with this piece at all.... Why is there a save for movement within the Sith, and not the Jedi? And I am not sure if I would ever use Force Curse. Awesome, Awesome name... but reminds me of Force Alter.... Which never sees play. What was this piece good with in playtesting? Dark Allure moves "Characters" (ally or enemy) 6 squares and generates AoOs. Sith Holocron could potentially pull an enemy past several allies and force multiple AoOs. Force Alter forces an enemy to reroll its attack. If they have a high attack that probably won't help. Force Curse CANCELS an enemy's attempted reroll of a Save. They don't get to reroll that failed Avoid Defeat, Dejem So, Evade, Block, SSM, ect. Save roll. Sith Holocron was great to play with plenty of characters especially ones without MotF2. Kylo Ren, Darth Cognus, General Grievous, Hero of Hypori . . . great stuff. Definitely great paired with Darth Baras too. As for the movement breaker, forcing an enemy to move not only provokes AoOs, but simply can make a character move closer so your big threats can reach it and attack it, or bring them to you so you can use a double/triple attack, pull them around a corner so allies can shoot them, lure them away from weaker allies, pull them away from a door so it closes or next to a door so it opens, pull them away from their allies that have bodyguard/tow cable, etc or pull them out of CE range. Moving an enemy is VERY powerful. Even if you only move an ally, moving an extra six squares is massively useful. I didn't think movement like that provoked AoOs
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Deaths_Baine wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:DarkDracul wrote:shmi15 wrote: Not overly impressed with this piece at all.... Why is there a save for movement within the Sith, and not the Jedi? And I am not sure if I would ever use Force Curse. Awesome, Awesome name... but reminds me of Force Alter.... Which never sees play. What was this piece good with in playtesting? Dark Allure moves "Characters" (ally or enemy) 6 squares and generates AoOs. Sith Holocron could potentially pull an enemy past several allies and force multiple AoOs. Force Alter forces an enemy to reroll its attack. If they have a high attack that probably won't help. Force Curse CANCELS an enemy's attempted reroll of a Save. They don't get to reroll that failed Avoid Defeat, Dejem So, Evade, Block, SSM, ect. Save roll. Sith Holocron was great to play with plenty of characters especially ones without MotF2. Kylo Ren, Darth Cognus, General Grievous, Hero of Hypori . . . great stuff. Definitely great paired with Darth Baras too. As for the movement breaker, forcing an enemy to move not only provokes AoOs, but simply can make a character move closer so your big threats can reach it and attack it, or bring them to you so you can use a double/triple attack, pull them around a corner so allies can shoot them, lure them away from weaker allies, pull them away from a door so it closes or next to a door so it opens, pull them away from their allies that have bodyguard/tow cable, etc or pull them out of CE range. Moving an enemy is VERY powerful. Even if you only move an ally, moving an extra six squares is massively useful. I didn't think movement like that provoked AoOs They have never in the past. SBM doesn't, nor has any other movement that is forced by an enemy. Force Push or Force Pull..... Is there particular wording that granted this ability the AoO? Or is it just to be assumed? This will get very confusing if it is just "assumed". Because my immediate assumption would be it does not. Can we get some clarification on something I may be missing? How it supersedes the precedent already in place for the game?
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Dark Allure is under review, fyi.
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(Note: Nobody's paying me to say this) I'd highly recommend listening to SHNN. They do an excellent job of discussing the potential usefulness of pieces like the Sith holocron. I wouldn't have been all that impressed with Lor San Tekka if I had read the stats instead of hearing them discussed on SHNN. Good stuff going on there.
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