To reply to the comment that I don't want to see any more competitive peices for the Seperatist faction, that is not what I meant. I do want to see more. I have been concerned about power creep in the V-sets and the damage output has undisputedly risen with the V-sets when compared to WotC sets. I actually do like the Spotter. He's a cool peice that makes other ones in the faction that don't see play a lot more viable (especially older ones). I just don't like the fact he has so many SA's crammed onto his card. One or two of them could be left off, and the mini would still fill the roll it is supposed to do. As it is, I do look forward to playing it. I have a ton of respect for the designers, and that they take into consideration concerns from players, says a lot about how these sets we are getting are much better than sets made by WotC. WotC didn't do what the V-set designers do on a regular basis. That is why I love the V-sets. I just feel like alerting the designers to a few areas to be careful of, and two recent points I've been trying to make is 1) average damage output on newer peices is becoming a lot higher, and thus outclassing older peices. 2) The amount of new SA's we are seeing needs to slow down, and less SA's on cards is not a bad thing. I understand the need for new SA's. This is absolutely nessesary to keep the game fresh. But it is going to come to a point where we have a ridicoulous amount to keep track of and try to remember. So I say, slow down. The V-sets will be coming out for many years to come. We don't need to do too much all at once.

As a playtester of the V-sets and a long time player of this game we all love, I've seen the evolution of this game take place. The V-sets mark a new era for the game, and will make it even better than ever. I can't help but notice that WotC's sets did at the end (starting with Dark Times) slow down their power creep. They endevored to fix a lot of things with GaW set (which was my favorite out of all the sets WotC made). And that set did a lot for the game! It made melee squads good again for the Republic and Whorm Loathsome made so many of the older seperatists playable again, as well make the faction more fringe friendly. Of all the V-sets made so far, the only one that I didn't completely like was Renagades and Rogues. It has some "problem pieces" that are under-costed and overpowered, and we will have to face the consequences or design to counter them. The others were awesome and didn't show to many signs of as much powercreep as I saw in R&R. DotF and Vengance are examples, imho, of a great job done by playtesters and designers alike. Something I love that the V-sets have done is make older peices good again. I can't wait to use this new Shield-bot with a squad consisting entirely of Commando droids! Peices like this make squads like that viable, and that is great! The Sheild-bot actually does respond to one of the concerns that I have had with te V-sets, and that is that high damage output is now at your own risk. Yeah, 40 dmg coming back at you is huge after one attack. I love how this new droid will make the living seperatist just that much more better and playable. The problem is what WotC left for us to clean up, and GGDAC, mouse droids, and IG-86's are their legacy. If droids could get as high a defense as they can, I'd have no issues with Energy shield being given to adjacent droids. But its when a non-accurate shooter needs to hit a 24 defense mouse droid that so happens to also have energy sheild...thats a problem. I can see the older Wat Tambor being used to give Draw Fire to a beefy droid to prevent accurate shooters from targeting the Sheild-bot, and that is cool, as he never see's play anymore. The Wat Tambor's made by WotC actually have some amazing synergy with the Sheild-bot! So major props to the designers for making those peices useful again.

But not as much of a problem as it was back in the days of Universe. Back then, you pretty much had to take your beating while you charged the shield and hoped you survived the point blank shots long enough to kill the viper behemoth and get at the soft meaty center of your opponent's squad.

Nowadays, there's so many ways to bypass energy/molecular shields that it just doesn't pack as much of a punch.

The X-1 Viper idea is hilarious.

Okay, let's stop this line of talk. Bring back to the set, not the users. Criticisms do not make someone a troll.

Out of all the pieces in the coming set, the one I look forward to playing the most is the Squib Trader. Talk about a absolutely nessary peice. Give Satchel charge to a beatstick and watch your squad not get locked out for the rest of the match when your uggies/r7's have been strafed/galloped to death. Nothin' more annoying than losing to a revolving door that you can't permanently force open. Whoever designed this piece is a genius.

It makes me look forward to seeing other pieces that are similar. And it just so happens to cost cheap enough to be brought in with Lobot.

(brutal strike) I would like to know what prompted the need for the change if that is not to much to ask. OF2 is on one unit currently and that unit is very expensive. Yes, with dejemso it can be powerful, but at two cost that would burn out the units force in a hurry.

(triumvirate) I guess I will have to wait and see how it interacts then. It just seemed silly to add two with one ability then add two with another (see Elite Old Republic Soldier)

(Camaraderie) I am actually looking at examples like obi jedi master, using a CE to boost a unit (and something that can be disrupted or such). Call me old fashioned but I like having more options than kill the *insert expletive* to deal with abilities. I fear using abilities like Camaraderie will eventually call for abilities or force powers or CE's that disruptive them.

(squib) The dependance on low hp units to do things always struck me as a good balance for the game. You use a unit of moderate cost to do something useful, I use a cheap unit to try and counter it, you can easily pick off that unit if you move correctly (possibly making a mistake and opening opportunities for me) or I can use that unit to try and make you slip up. Now, you use light to medium cost units to do something, I use cheap unit to give my beasts a counter, your tactics are hosed. It reminds me of atton with override. Override was powerful but it was only on units with no attacks, now we have a good attacker with it who can also hose you.

I guess I can sum it up as an overarching observation. I see a few themes from the v-set, an increase in power of attackers (12 point unit that can deal 120-160 damage in a round), tech that is going from just tech to tech with teeth (atton, omega squad, atris and the like. I remember when it use to be you kill the attackers the tech was an after thought, now it is a major threat), a large increase in the number of units with evade, parry, or some form of armor/shields, and a swarm of new abilities that could be replaced by or closely resemble existing abilities. It seems like it is becoming more of a rock paper scissors game than a tactics game. I can look at my squad and then at my opponents squad and have a fairly good idea of who will win before the first round of play.

Example 1: Say I run a quadek vong squad. If I come across parry, dejem so, jedi reflexes, or a good strong melee unit, I lose. If I run into a glass cannon squad, mobile attackers, opposed cloaked units, scrubs with commanders, or a swap squad, I have a great chance of winning.

Example 2: I run a mixed melee-range squad with a lot of door tech and light commanders (lets say bastila squad with atton and vander or something). If I come across a CE heavy squad, a movement breaking squad, or a deathstar squad I stand a good chance of winning. Show me a non CE swarm, cloaked vong squad, or a heavy evade/parry shooter squad and I will have a huge uphill battle ahead of me.

Example 3: I run an empire thrawn swap with pel so I have double coverage vs bastila and I run with storm commandos and some alright tech behind them. Throw me a high hp beater squad, glass cannon, or deathstar squad and I will chew through it without much issue. Put a mace in the face, movement breaker, disruptive abuse outside bastila, or commander hunter squad and I will lose more often than not.

Sorry for making a second reply to fast, this was posted while I was writing the other one.



New special abilities are not in themselves bad. However, abilities for the sake of abilities seems a little off. Here are some specifics.

Padawan (This character can spend a Unique ally's Force points, but cannot combine them with its own force points)

First off, will anybody be willing to save this unit with force points? But more to the point, this is a decent ability with uses in other future mini's.

(see brutal strike on previous post)

Vibroblade [Replaces attacks: +6 Attack for 20 Damage against an adjacent target; this counts as a melee attack]

You already have several other abilities that do very similar things to this. Yes, it gives some flavor to the unit, but I think we can be better served by making a single ability other units can also use. I also feel it wastes time in game when you have multiple abilities that do the same thing, having to look up each new named ability to find out what it does.

Surprise Attack [Force 2; Once per round, after initiative is determined, this character can make an immediate attack]

It is powerful, it can be useful, it is another ability that destroys defensive tactics in favor of run in and shoot tactics. I am not a fan of such abilities that seem designed to increase the pace of the game, I would play heroclix if I wanted that.

(see camaraderie on previous post)

Ruthless [Critical hits from this character cannot be prevented or redirected]

This is an ability like one I made fun of in a post that was determined to be to offensive. Somebody somewhere seemed to dislike the defensive nature of several units *raises hand on this one* and made an ability that rarely takes effect. If I want crits to do something every time, I will take disintegration, overwhelming force, or overwhelming power (an ability this unit could have easily had).

Acrobatic [Ignores enemy characters when moving]
Quick Reflexes [+6 Defense when attacked on attacks of opportunity]

2 fer here. We have normal defensive abilities that already do similar things (flight, wall climber, LS defense :P) I can see a place for one of the abilities (acrobatic) but why the other and in the same set?

Hat Toss [Replaces attacks: Choose 1 enemy within 6 squares, ignoring cover. Target and 1 adjacent enemy take 20 damage and are considered activated this round; save 11.]

Its another grenades like ability. That is all it is. We have what, 8 different ones that do very similar things with subtle differences. It is also another SA that is going to be unit specific and never seen again. Something else to look up.



First off....KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!! Second, glass canon is great and all, but it only needs 31 points of support that can be used with other units besides this one to deal that 120 damage. There is plenty of room left over when you put 5 of these with its support to defend against a Yobuck, lancer, or quednak (but see my previous post for rock paper scissors). Just off the top of my head, Bastila, greedo BH, and zuckuss BH would be within the point allowance with the 5 +support and would deal with the movement threat. All while giving you a potential 600 points of damage in a round. And I think that is the key here, under 100 points of units and support can deal over 500 damage in a round.




EDIT ADDITION



As I said, I will have to see the other ones. First impressions (and only information available) was that it was a second layer of tactician in case tactician got a counter. I look forward to seeing the others with it and what it does.



Fair enough on the not a commander part. I still do fear the ability creep eventually calling for an ability that cancels such abilities.



I still stand by the previous point. It was a give and take thing and it let older units get more uses (lobot screams in my mind as an example) Yes, you got the activations and the ability but at the cost of points and vulnerability. Give and take. This new guy is give and give and give. Yeah, the abilities replace attacks and such but how do I deal with it as an opponent? I have to RAWR kill your beefy units to make a tactic work, also known as give up my strategy to kill you now and make me not even want to use a strategy any more because there is a complete and utterly devastating counter to it (see bastila). Yes, getting locked behind a door sucks but put in a R7 or lobot or mice or uggies and you have a counter. Lobot gives you a flexible one. Either way, it was a counter you had to think about. Now it is a counter you can just rely on.



It seems like the wrong direction entirely. Why rock paper scissor when you can simply better the counters (shatter beam comes to mind) or the survivability of the units involved (advantageous cover, grant stealth, increase speed) that still allow for existing counters (accurate shot can get the stealth, speed or range vs speed, and melee vs advantageous cover). I will keep watching and keep commenting, hoping you are going in the right direction though ^^

One thing to note about Brutal Strike: It only prevents prevention, but not redirection. So, you can still use abilities like Bodyguard or Draw Fire, which would not have worked on Overwhelming Force.

Actually it isn't. It ignores cover completely. Meaning Embo can target Cloaked guys with it as long as he is within 6. That's a pretty big benefit honestly. Normally to stop a grenades character you put a single piece of fodder out in front. That doesn't effect Hat toss at all. Being able to pick out who you want to target is a HUGE benefit. instead of hitting an uggie and a mouse you can hit Han and Leia for example.

When the enemy is across a pit
When activating the character is more beneficial than damaging it
When the desired target is being screened by other units
When the enemy's defense is high enough that the save has a better chance at damage