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Community Project - Printed Scenario Book with Extras Options
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:23:03 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
Sithborg wrote:
Jedicartographer wrote:
Then theres the asthetic aspect of the V-set cards for me: I think they need to be just a little nicer if you are charging money. And I really don't mean to offend when I say that. But the cards need to be treated like a collectible.


And here is where I will disagree with you, vehemently. We are no longer beholden to the collecteble market. As much as I like the printed cards, I do think it was a mistake to go that way. We should've stayed with printable PDFs. The constant asking of donations for the Vsets makes me nervous, mainly due to the very thin line we are walking, legally. The fact that the BHC cards cannot be played, until we have them printed, annoys me as well.

As for the cards themselves, I can't comment too much on them aesthically. I like them. Sue me. So they don't have artwork, but they are being made by a volunteer. And they get no monetary compensation. And the recomended mini is for those players like me. Who has neither the skill or the desire to make customs. And even then, that is extremely flexable.

Also, when you start talking that much money, you have every chance to become more than a blip that various companies ignore. Don't forget, maps have been forced to be renamed in the past.


Hey - it's the Internet - I'll disagree with both of you. BigGrin

I love the look of the Vset - way better than WotC's design at any rate. And I love the printed product instead of just PDFs... very glad we have them.

I wouldn't want them to be 'collectible' though, with original art or intentional scarcity or anything like that. Or especially anything that might make it look like someone is trying to make money on the project. Remember that nobody is charging anything for the Vset cards. It's donations - and the product is free once enough donations are collected - with the contributors getting first dibs. At this point, all the contributors have their cards so all the cards from previous Vsets really are free at this point for as long as supply lasts. So nobody is charged for the product... just making that clear, because as far as I understand it, that's the legal distinction. (I heard it on the Internet - it must be true, right?)
Jedicartographer
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:28:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/18/2008
Posts: 538
Location: Virginia
Sithborg wrote:
Jedicartographer wrote:
Then theres the asthetic aspect of the V-set cards for me: I think they need to be just a little nicer if you are charging money. And I really don't mean to offend when I say that. But the cards need to be treated like a collectible.


And here is where I will disagree with you, vehemently. We are no longer beholden to the collecteble market. As much as I like the printed cards, I do think it was a mistake to go that way. We should've stayed with printable PDFs. The constant asking of donations for the Vsets makes me nervous, mainly due to the very thin line we are walking, legally. The fact that the BHC cards cannot be played, until we have them printed, annoys me as well.

As for the cards themselves, I can't comment too much on them aesthically. I like them. Sue me. So they don't have artwork, but they are being made by a volunteer. And they get no monetary compensation. And the recomended mini is for those players like me. Who has neither the skill or the desire to make customs. And even then, that is extremely flexable.

Also, when you start talking that much money, you have every chance to become more than a blip that various companies ignore. Don't forget, maps have been forced to be renamed in the past.



whoa, dude. fall back! I totally understand what your saying. Les Eller has gone above and beyond on the cards, and recieved noting but gratitude. And I know they are meant to be as vague as possible for nebulous legalities that nobody (including me) has taken the time to really research.

I'm sorry to hurt feelings, but if you are approaching THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT as a way to bring people back in the game, then you need to come up with something that is going to grab their attention. Maybe "treating the card as a collectible" is a poor choice of words. Treat them as a work of art, or an attention grabber.

As far as raising money of that magnitude, The fact of the matter is people raise 4 or 5 times this much money to create Star Wars fan films, it's always been a welcome aspect of Star Wars fandom. this is no different.

lol...but honestly what do I care? I can't get too involved in this anyway... And by the tone of most people I can see that not alot of you really has my vision in mind, which is totally cool, so I do wish you the best of luck. Maybe I can just do my own thing down the road and see how it goes! Smile
Sithborg
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:58:33 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
I only know what legalities that have been discussed with SWCCG. Different situation, since they have official permission from Decipher and some approval from LFL. But they have some rather weird restrictions.

I'm not trying to attack this project. Whatever is made should look good, obviously. But, it should be relatively cheap. Most of those that stay at home, probably were not the case buying types.
SignerJ
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:52:08 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 1/2/2012
Posts: 746
The problem I have with using the V-Set pieces... Some of them are just plain no fun. Windu LotLS, Bastila... I (admittedly) haven't played many games with the V-Set pieces, but they seem much more aimed at the competitive meta than for fun scenario play. I agree that we should probably limit the number of cards we create, but I don't think that we should necessarily always turn to the V-Sets, either. And in the individual scenarios, we could always add special errata.

Note: When I say "create cards," I mean to make stats that we include either in the scenarios or in the back of the book.
swinefeld
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:56:34 PM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
SignerJ wrote:
And in the individual scenarios, we could always add special errata.


That is pretty common in a bunch of the older scenarios I've looked at, and makes good sense.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:04:10 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
It's called special scenario rules, not errata. :-)

On the Vsets, fun is different for different people, I guess. I think Windu and Bastila are each slightly overpowered. (Drop a force point for Bastila and Force Absorb for Mace, for example.) But I do think they're lots of fun. For scenarios, though, it's easy to just not include them. Tell people to use original Bastila or another Mace if you need to use those characters. No need to design our own, though. A big headache - not worth it unless absolutely necessary.
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:00:55 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 279
Wow I love the discussion and comments about this project and I admit after all of this I feel like a deer in the headlights on how to proceed with this project. It seems to me it might be a bit grander than I first thought, I don't want to break in laws either nor do i want to claim 20k of sales on my taxes next year either. i am sure we can make this project come to life in a way that doesnt cost an arm and a leg
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:09:39 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
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While I love the idea of having something to draw the masses to my favorite game, I just envisioned this as a PDF that you can print out for yourself and put in a binder. Or maybe Print-N-Play Productions could do it for you for a fee to get better printing/binding with no hassle. Still, I would like it to be a nice product... something that is worth printing and keeping on the shelf.
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:21:28 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 279
FlyingArrow wrote:
While I love the idea of having something to draw the masses to my favorite game, I just envisioned this as a PDF that you can print out for yourself and put in a binder. Or maybe Print-N-Play Productions could do it for you for a fee to get better printing/binding with no hassle. Still, I would like it to be a nice product... something that is worth printing and keeping on the shelf.


I agree 100%, as much as I love competitive play it get very tiresome. a buddy and I where Joking the other day that you almost have to have a degree in SWM now to keep up and remain competitive. While I love that part of the game there are other ways to play that are just as fun, which was what I envisioned behind this Volume, and is probably all that I can commit to doing. So continue to send me scenarios and game types and other play ideas, I will work my hardest to compile them. and maybe enlist some community help to make this happen as fast as possible.
SignerJ
Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 3:53:01 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 1/2/2012
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I think that Jedicartographer was thinking of something more in line of professionally printing the booklets (with donations), and we can put a printable PDF online, rather than just making a PDF. After all, how much marketing are you going to be able to do with an intangible product like the PDF? I think that a tangible product might just be more enticing to the average (non-Bloomilk) SWM player.
Jedicartographer
Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 5:09:28 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/18/2008
Posts: 538
Location: Virginia
FlyingArrow wrote:
While I love the idea of having something to draw the masses to my favorite game, I just envisioned this as a PDF that you can print out for yourself and put in a binder. Or maybe Print-N-Play Productions could do it for you for a fee to get better printing/binding with no hassle. Still, I would like it to be a nice product... something that is worth printing and keeping on the shelf.


it pretty much defeats the purpose of the original goal. you have a really cool project, that a few of you will get involved in, and it won't do anything but entertain the few that are working on it. not one ripple will be made. its just another customs project.

The bottom line: if you want to change the direction the game is going in (at least from the prespective of public interest and community population) then you are going to have to work hard and take a few risks. It's ok if your not willing to do it, but don't expect any results.

Maybe it seems overwhelming to some of you, and I guess due to my experience with the all the maps, I'm coming from a different perspective..


pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 7:27:18 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 279
Ok, ok enough talk, whatever we decide to do when it comes to publishing this thing it will not happen with out the community submitting their ideas for scenarios and such. I think I have gotten three so far and that is no where near enough to make this a reality. JC maybe you and I can have a conversation on what some options are when it comes to packaging an idea like this. I know you are looking at getting out of the business so I am not looking at you to lead anything just to be able to pick your brain. but until we get enough ideas, publication is no where in site. so lets work on step one before step thirty seven.

Here is what I need
-Contributors, Players who will email me their ideas (It could be anything just lets start somewhere)

-Play Testers, Play testers those would would be willing to test out these scenarios and tweak them where needed.

My goal is not to compete with V-sets but to supplement them, If we could work with the v-set guys to maybe come out with a micro-set geared to a scenario or two that would be awesome but as of right now lets just start compiling Scenarios and different game play ideas and as this dream become a reality we can move forward with some of the harder decisions, such as how to publish it or new v-set cards....... OK?
Jedicartographer
Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 7:37:33 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/18/2008
Posts: 538
Location: Virginia
pastorbudwine@mac.com wrote:
Ok, ok enough talk, whatever we decide to do when it comes to publishing this thing it will not happen with out the community submitting their ideas for scenarios and such. I think I have gotten three so far and that is no where near enough to make this a reality. JC maybe you and I can have a conversation on what some options are when it comes to packaging an idea like this. I know you are looking at getting out of the business so I am not looking at you to lead anything just to be able to pick your brain. but until we get enough ideas, publication is no where in site. so lets work on step one before step thirty seven.

Here is what I need
-Contributors, Players who will email me their ideas (It could be anything just lets start somewhere)

-Play Testers, Play testers those would would be willing to test out these scenarios and tweak them where needed.

My goal is not to compete with V-sets but to supplement them, If we could work with the v-set guys to maybe come out with a micro-set geared to a scenario or two that would be awesome but as of right now lets just start compiling Scenarios and different game play ideas and as this dream become a reality we can move forward with some of the harder decisions, such as how to publish it or new v-set cards....... OK?


yeah dude, like I said i can help out when I have time just friend me on FB.
corranhorn
Posted: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:40:23 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/14/2009
Posts: 1,728
Jedicartographer wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
While I love the idea of having something to draw the masses to my favorite game, I just envisioned this as a PDF that you can print out for yourself and put in a binder. Or maybe Print-N-Play Productions could do it for you for a fee to get better printing/binding with no hassle. Still, I would like it to be a nice product... something that is worth printing and keeping on the shelf.


it pretty much defeats the purpose of the original goal. you have a really cool project, that a few of you will get involved in, and it won't do anything but entertain the few that are working on it. not one ripple will be made. its just another customs project.

The bottom line: if you want to change the direction the game is going in (at least from the prespective of public interest and community population) then you are going to have to work hard and take a few risks. It's ok if your not willing to do it, but don't expect any results.

Maybe it seems overwhelming to some of you, and I guess due to my experience with the all the maps, I'm coming from a different perspective..




Agree 100%.
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:34:03 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 279
starting to put things together please continue to send them.
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Monday, February 4, 2013 5:17:22 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 279
I have a few scenarios in need of play testing any takers
CerousMutor
Posted: Monday, February 4, 2013 10:39:41 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 990
send me a Bloomail. The GF wants to play more board games so this is fortuitous
raylinthegreat
Posted: Monday, February 4, 2013 1:06:30 PM
Rank: B'omarr Monk
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/15/2010
Posts: 32
My group is willing to playtest any and all you shoot our way.
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Thursday, February 7, 2013 7:17:38 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 279
Hey guys I am going to have to put this project on hold for a bit I have had some personal things come up recently that requires utmost attention. I will try to get the Scenarios that I have out to you guys who will do play testing this week, I would love to still receive more so if you have them still send them to me and when I get more time we will send another wave out for play testing.
swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, February 7, 2013 8:08:00 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
I haven't forgotten. I'll get some stuff to you asap, but I'm in the middle of something pressing for the time being.
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