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Rival doesn't work thematically. Daala and Pellaeon worked closely together.
Please don't ban Daala before GenCon. For her to be truly awful, she needs to win GenCon. There will be lots of folk expecting her and she needs to get her shot. Now that she's won NZ, we will work out our next season approach for her (I'm assuming). But, she had her shot!
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urbanjedi wrote:TheHutts wrote:Hypothetically, if Daala was banned or neutered hard, would would be the next best paper squad? Tantives? Naboo Troopers (D Nader's regional winning build was clever, despite not getting much attention)? Would they just fill the niche, or are Daala squads far and away the best paper build? I think that SOME squad would fill that roll. There is always some perceived evil best squad that people love to make out to be the villain. Everything from B+B, to speedy cannon, to GOWK, to Lancer/yobuck, to bastilla, to mace, to naboo, to storm commandos, to malgus/caedus, daala/karrde/tantives. If you remove that squad, people will just hate on a new squad that is an NPE or overpowered or whatever. And I am not even sold that Daala is the best swarm out there at the current time. It's just the one that people are playing the most. It is interesting when you think about it objectively - if you take out the New Zealand results, she's only won 2 Regionals this year, and there's no good reason to do anything about her. But from a New Zealand perspective, I don't think we've got too upset about anything else - we only really started in earnest post v-sets, but Daala's really the only piece that there's a major consensus on. With the Snowtrooper squad I took to NZ Nationals this year (which I didn't actually win with....), I do think that access to Pellaeon is the biggest problem. Some popular Jedi - Thon, Kaan, Anakin Solo, Dooku - have area force powers to help deal with swarms. And if they can't use those against a swarm, it does throw a loop, since it's one of the things that keeps swarms under control. Momaw doesn't work since they're 20 hit points. Celeste is another force user who helps keep swarm squads under control too, but it's hard to make her work against high activations and force immunity. Plus Bastilla usually keeps stacked commander effects under control, but I think Daala with Pellaeon should destroy Bastila squads a lot of the time, or at least have a good chance.
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kezzamachine wrote:Rival doesn't work thematically. Daala and Pellaeon worked closely together.
Please don't ban Daala before GenCon. For her to be truly awful, she needs to win GenCon. There will be lots of folk expecting her and she needs to get her shot. Now that she's won NZ, we will work out our next season approach for her (I'm assuming). But, she had her shot! She won't get her shot here. None of the top players will run her.
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She won't get her shot here. None of the top players will run her.
That doesn't mean she still won't have her shot. if even a few average players bring her and do well (top 4 or better) then I would still say that's a fair shot considering how much hate they should face.
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kezzamachine wrote:Rival doesn't work thematically. Daala and Pellaeon worked closely together.
Please don't ban Daala before GenCon. For her to be truly awful, she needs to win GenCon. There will be lots of folk expecting her and she needs to get her shot. Now that she's won NZ, we will work out our next season approach for her (I'm assuming). But, she had her shot! What about dropping her cost to 15? Then she can't be a many Commander squads. No Cunning, No opp, Just straight move 12. yes you could still use the sled but for only 30 now. I don't like the idea but it gets around adding rival
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Tone down the CE to something less drastic. Or make Prideful only for the commanders.
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swinefeld wrote:Tone down the CE to something less drastic. Or make Prideful only for the commanders. If a change is made to her i think this is the way to go. I do not think that Charging fire in and of itself is the broken issue. As said above i do not like the sentiment of banning pieces. However massive erratas are bad too. IF we keep it simple to something like this than it would work and causes less stress. Personally i do not like the idea of adding rival to her for admirals, not only because it is not thematic, but also because it would then make her pretty much useless which is not the intent, at least i do not think so. Also dropping her cost to 15 would do the same thing. Most imperial commanders are above 15 so that would completely tank her to a never again played piece.
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swinefeld wrote:Tone down the CE to something less drastic. Or make Prideful only for the commanders. If Prideful is only for the commanders, Daala will probably be played primarily in conjunction with Thrawn.
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FlyingArrow wrote:swinefeld wrote:Tone down the CE to something less drastic. Or make Prideful only for the commanders. If Prideful is only for the commanders, Daala will probably be played primarily in conjunction with Thrawn. I like the idea of changing the CE, but I don't see a problem with her when it comes to pieces that cost over 10. The scout squads are very beatable and they seem to be the best ones outside of the 1-10 point range. Limiting her CE to troopers over 10 would work well to decrease her power and would make it so you can still have some tier 1 or 1.5 daala squads. She just wouldn't be the gate keeper she used to.
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FlyingArrow wrote:swinefeld wrote:Tone down the CE to something less drastic. Or make Prideful only for the commanders. If Prideful is only for the commanders, Daala will probably be played primarily in conjunction with Thrawn. True, and that has not been heavily Explored because of Prideful's effect. also i can see Tarkin coming up more on that one (which i do like). 
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FlyingArrow wrote:swinefeld wrote:Tone down the CE to something less drastic. Or make Prideful only for the commanders. If Prideful is only for the commanders, Daala will probably be played primarily in conjunction with Thrawn. Could be true. Commander Effect Imperial trooper allies can move up to double speed, then attack an adjacent enemy. shrug
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atmsalad wrote:[quote=FlyingArrow]
I like the idea of changing the CE, but I don't see a problem with her when it comes to pieces that cost over 10. The scout squads are very beatable and they seem to be the best ones outside of the 1-10 point range. Limiting her CE to troopers over 10 would work well to decrease her power and would make it so you can still have some tier 1 or 1.5 daala squads. She just wouldn't be the gate keeper she used to. Along that thought train, what if she had an ability that negated allied Rapport or had the opposite effect and increased trooper's points?
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swinefeld wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:swinefeld wrote:Tone down the CE to something less drastic. Or make Prideful only for the commanders. If Prideful is only for the commanders, Daala will probably be played primarily in conjunction with Thrawn. Could be true. Commander Effect Imperial trooper allies can move up to double speed, then attack an adjacent enemy. shrug I do like the idea of giving her charging assault. 2 weeks ago I brought that up on sith holo.
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EmporerDragon wrote:atmsalad wrote:[quote=FlyingArrow]
I like the idea of changing the CE, but I don't see a problem with her when it comes to pieces that cost over 10. The scout squads are very beatable and they seem to be the best ones outside of the 1-10 point range. Limiting her CE to troopers over 10 would work well to decrease her power and would make it so you can still have some tier 1 or 1.5 daala squads. She just wouldn't be the gate keeper she used to. Along that thought train, what if she had an ability that negated allied Rapport or had the opposite effect and increased trooper's points? Negating allied rapport would still keep raxus in the meta. Which isn't a really bad thing because of how trough that squad is to run.(IMO) increasing the cost of troopers in a squad with her would pretty well nerf her.
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EmporerDragon wrote:atmsalad wrote:[quote=FlyingArrow]
I like the idea of changing the CE, but I don't see a problem with her when it comes to pieces that cost over 10. The scout squads are very beatable and they seem to be the best ones outside of the 1-10 point range. Limiting her CE to troopers over 10 would work well to decrease her power and would make it so you can still have some tier 1 or 1.5 daala squads. She just wouldn't be the gate keeper she used to. Along that thought train, what if she had an ability that negated allied Rapport or had the opposite effect and increased trooper's points? I've been an advocate for a cost increased due to pairing. Like Han with Boba or Bossk with Boba. I called it "Animosity" but could be called "Reluctant" or "Reluctance." (Character costs X when in the same squad as Y)
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markedman247 wrote:
I've been an advocate for a cost increased due to pairing. Like Han with Boba or Bossk with Boba.
I called it "Animosity" but could be called "Reluctant" or "Reluctance." (Character costs X when in the same squad as Y)
Inefficiency (Troopers in with a printed cost of 10 or less cost 1 more when in a squad with this character and no longer count as an eligible character for Rapport) Best part is that it still fits her character when you look how quickly things went to hell when she took charge.
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EmporerDragon wrote:markedman247 wrote:
I've been an advocate for a cost increased due to pairing. Like Han with Boba or Bossk with Boba.
I called it "Animosity" but could be called "Reluctant" or "Reluctance." (Character costs X when in the same squad as Y)
Inefficiency (Troopers in with a printed cost of 10 or less cost 1 more when in a squad with this character and no longer count as an eligible character for Rapport) Best part is that it still fits her character when you look how quickly things went to hell when she took charge. I like that a lot!
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atmsalad wrote:EmporerDragon wrote:markedman247 wrote:
I've been an advocate for a cost increased due to pairing. Like Han with Boba or Bossk with Boba.
I called it "Animosity" but could be called "Reluctant" or "Reluctance." (Character costs X when in the same squad as Y)
Inefficiency (Troopers in with a printed cost of 10 or less cost 1 more when in a squad with this character and no longer count as an eligible character for Rapport) Best part is that it still fits her character when you look how quickly things went to hell when she took charge. I like that a lot! I like it. I could see a Morlish Veed or Nute with this. What I don't like? It reminds me too much of my job.
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Tournament players need to stop being so afraid of errata/banning pieces. I understand that now that you guys are in control, there's a certain "Honeymoon Phase" of getting to call the shots on what gets errata'd/banned, but I think now should be a prime example of why those types of things were occurring in the first place. The fact of the matter is that when you don't ban some of these NPE pieces, the tournament scenes will continue to generate the same teams (like we see the NPE of 13 mouse droids at least once a tourney.
Let's be smart here. I get the reservations, but the entire community should be the first priority.
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Darth_Reignir wrote:Tournament players need to stop being so afraid of errata/banning pieces. I understand that now that you guys are in control, there's a certain "Honeymoon Phase" of getting to call the shots on what gets errata'd/banned, but I think now should be a prime example of why those types of things were occurring in the first place. The fact of the matter is that when you don't ban some of these NPE pieces, the tournament scenes will continue to generate the same teams (like we see the NPE of 13 mouse droids at least once a tourney.
Let's be smart here. I get the reservations, but the entire community should be the first priority. A month out I would be fine with it... I know some people don't like the regional season seemingly meaning nothing though. 2 weeks away from gencon would tick me and a lot of guys off.
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