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Who will you use with GMLS? Options
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:07:11 AM
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--GMLS 500--
115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
61 Cade Skywalker, Bounty Hunter
54 Kyle Katarn, Jedi Battlemaster
45 Mara Jade, Jedi
38 Kol Skywalker
26 Kyp Durron
26 Yuuzhan Vong Ossus Guardian
25 Leia Skywalker, Jedi Knight
23 General Wedge Antilles
23 Jolee Bindo
24 Antarian Ranger x2
9 General Dodonna
7 Duros Scout
6 Varactyl Wrangler
12 Mouse Droid x4
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2
(500pts. 21 activations)

Here's my attempt at the 500-pt GMLS squad.

http://bloomilk.com/Squads/View.aspx?ID=48811


---
Edit: updated.
Sith Spawn
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:09:45 AM
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
GMLS is a beast of a character. His weaknesses are Vong(that's obvious) and disintegration. Fett BH is the man to play against the GM. Luke needs as many bodyguards as you can cram into your squad when you play him.
billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:11:04 AM
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Sith Spawn wrote:
GMLS is awesome against everything except Vong and disitegration. Fett BH is the one to look out for when playing Luke. Get as many BGs as possible to prolong his reign of terror.


I will dispute that claim. He is awesome one on one against anyone except Vong and I suppose disintegration.

But squad wise, he is average. Almost all top tier squads can handle him in a squad vs. squad match up.
swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:28:03 AM
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billiv15 wrote:

I will dispute that claim. He is awesome one on one against anyone except Vong and I suppose disintegration.

But squad wise, he is average. Almost all top tier squads can handle him in a squad vs. squad match up.


I don't think there is a single Vong piece that could reliably survive 1 on 1 against him. Warmaster is the only one with enough hit points to hang in there for long, but he can't do nearly enough damage... Maybe I'm missing something.
Sith Spawn
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:30:23 AM
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It all depends on how you play him. His high HP and defense with force powers would suggest that he's a tank. I would agree with you if you played him like Bane. But he does not do well at the very front. Playing him towards the middle with a lot of back up characters, like the rangers and exceptional apprentices, has worked very well for me.
billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:34:19 AM
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swinefeld wrote:
billiv15 wrote:

I will dispute that claim. He is awesome one on one against anyone except Vong and I suppose disintegration.

But squad wise, he is average. Almost all top tier squads can handle him in a squad vs. squad match up.


I don't think there is a single Vong piece that could reliably survive 1 on 1 against him. Warmaster is the only one with enough hit points to hang in there for long, but he can't do nearly enough damage... Maybe I'm missing something.


Yeah, I suppose that wasn't accurate of me. You need about 60pts of Vong to deal with Luke easily, not one on one lol.

There probably isn't anyone without crits that can deal with Luke one on one.
swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:50:26 AM
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billiv15 wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
billiv15 wrote:

I will dispute that claim. He is awesome one on one against anyone except Vong and I suppose disintegration.

But squad wise, he is average. Almost all top tier squads can handle him in a squad vs. squad match up.


I don't think there is a single Vong piece that could reliably survive 1 on 1 against him. Warmaster is the only one with enough hit points to hang in there for long, but he can't do nearly enough damage... Maybe I'm missing something.


Yeah, I suppose that wasn't accurate of me. You need about 60pts of Vong to deal with Luke easily, not one on one lol.

There probably isn't anyone without crits that can deal with Luke one on one.


Hehe, I figured that was a case of fast fingers, but I couldn't resist... BlooMilk
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:09:06 AM
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If you're going for disintegration, a Gotal horde would be a lot more cost-efficient than Fett.
swsf17
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:37:03 AM
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homer_sapien wrote:
I'm hoping the first time I play him its with a single Youngling. My LGS's sealed release game is 120 points and that's my hoped for squad.



I played that squad on a realease tournament and I was impressed because in one of my games it killed a jensari defender and cade. i was very impressed.
joelker41
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:00:06 AM
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I still want to see a GMLS vs Vader SOTJ with Mitthrawn backup when luke has just activated and hits Vader and Vader Djem Sos (possibly) needing anything but a 1 to do 40 back to Luke. Every time GMLS does 20 to Vader he could be taking 40 back lol. That doesn't take into account Riposte either.

Of course there would need to be a BG or two for Vader because he wouldn't win the HP battle, AND Luke can always use Force Defense on Vader's rerolled Djem Sos and Riposte but overall I would love to sit down with some popcorn and a a drink an watch that exchange.

swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:13:13 AM
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joelker41 wrote:
I still want to see a GMLS vs Vader SOTJ with Mitthrawn backup when luke has just activated and hits Vader and Vader Djem Sos (possibly) needing anything but a 1 to do 40 back to Luke. Every time GMLS does 20 to Vader he could be taking 40 back lol. That doesn't take into account Riposte either.

Of course there would need to be a BG or two for Vader because he wouldn't win the HP battle, AND Luke can always use Force Defense on Vader's rerolled Djem Sos and Riposte but overall I would love to sit down with some popcorn and a a drink an watch that exchange.



That would be fun to play out. Don't forget that Luke's DSSM does 30 back to Vader!
Warlord_Hett
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:18:16 AM
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swinefeld wrote:
joelker41 wrote:
I still want to see a GMLS vs Vader SOTJ with Mitthrawn backup when luke has just activated and hits Vader and Vader Djem Sos (possibly) needing anything but a 1 to do 40 back to Luke. Every time GMLS does 20 to Vader he could be taking 40 back lol. That doesn't take into account Riposte either.

Of course there would need to be a BG or two for Vader because he wouldn't win the HP battle, AND Luke can always use Force Defense on Vader's rerolled Djem Sos and Riposte but overall I would love to sit down with some popcorn and a a drink an watch that exchange.



That would be fun to play out. Don't forget that Luke's DSSM does 30 back to Vader!


Luke could do 50 back to Vader, 30 from the Djem So but then he'd get a twin attack for another 20
Jester007
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:48:58 AM
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swinefeld wrote:
I don't think there is a single Vong piece that could reliably survive 1 on 1 against him.


There are VERY few pieces in the game that can do "well" against GMLS 1 on 1. I think it's ridiculous trying make comparisons with a 115 point character as the opposition.

Sincerely,
Jester007
billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:06:01 PM
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Warlord_Hett wrote:

Luke could do 50 back to Vader, 30 from the Djem So but then he'd get a twin attack for another 20


It's more important to look at odds here (I know he misspoke about the 40, but his point is valid).

Luke at Full vs Vader SotJ at Full.

Vader attacks with Opportunist (as that was the comparison made).

Vader hits first one, does 40dmg. Luke tries to defense, 50% chance he takes 40, and he can reroll.

Then 50% chance he hits the Djem so roll, and of course he can reroll.

Let's assume normal odds, that one of Luke's Fprrs still fails, and the other works. Therefore he is out of force usage early in the fight (just to make things simpler).

So let's assume he fails the defense, but makes the Djem so. He is at 110hps.

He then attacks once at +23, hits for 30. Now Vader gets a Djem so save at 50%. Let's assume he as well makes the save. He gets to hit back for another 40. Luke can Djem so this as well, let's assume he fails this time, and Vader then chooses to Reposte, that's another 40 to Luke (remember, JH + opp). Luke is already almost dead and has yet to do more than 30 to Vader.

Now Luke djem so's the Reposte, makes the save, but chooses not to attack (since he will die first in this situation). But he still has to make the original Djem so twin attack, so he takes it, hits and does 20 to Vader. Now vader fails his djem so, so the first attack is resolved with Luke at 30hps and Vader at 90.

And Vader still has his double.

Honestly, in this situation, Luke should never use Djem so against Vader, as oddly, odds are he dies first. It's just too much damage, and his hps cannot keep up. Having the ability to defense won't help him enough, even with MotF2. Especially since it's a 55pt piece hurting a 115.

The same to a lesser extent is true of any other Djem so character. Sure, in most of those cases, Luke will win the battle, but the much cheaper opponent will likely end up doing much more damage than Luke can handle costing him the war. Vader SotJ is one case where he probably won't even win the battle in most cases.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:09:18 PM
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Warlord_Hett wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
joelker41 wrote:
I still want to see a GMLS vs Vader SOTJ with Mitthrawn backup when luke has just activated and hits Vader and Vader Djem Sos (possibly) needing anything but a 1 to do 40 back to Luke. Every time GMLS does 20 to Vader he could be taking 40 back lol. That doesn't take into account Riposte either.

Of course there would need to be a BG or two for Vader because he wouldn't win the HP battle, AND Luke can always use Force Defense on Vader's rerolled Djem Sos and Riposte but overall I would love to sit down with some popcorn and a a drink an watch that exchange.



That would be fun to play out. Don't forget that Luke's DSSM does 30 back to Vader!


Luke could do 50 back to Vader, 30 from the Djem So but then he'd get a twin attack for another 20


Wouldn't the Twin be considered part of the same attack so it would still get the +10 bonus?

Also, for each part of the twin attack, I believe Vader would Djem So in return. It could play out like this:

Code:
Luke Attack #1 (20 dmg)
    Vader Djem So - make save (40 dmg)
        Luke Djem So - make save (30 dmg)
            Vader Djem So - fail save
            Vader Riposte - make save (40 dmg)
                Luke Djem So - fail save
        Luke Djem So (twin) (30 dmg)
            Vader Djem So - make save (40 dmg)
                Luke Djem So - make save (30 dmg)
                    Vader Djem So - fail save
                Luke Djem So (twin) (30 dmg)
                    Vader Djem So - make save (miss attack)
Luke Attack #1 (twin) (miss attack)
Luke Attack #2 (20 dmg)
    Vader Djem So - fail save
Luke Attack #2 (twin) (20 dmg)
    Vader Djem So - make save (miss attack)
Luke Attack #3 (20 dmg)
    Vader Djem So - make save (40 dmg)
        Luke Djem So - fail save
Luke Attack #3 (twin) (20 dmg)
    Vader Djem So - make save (40 dmg)
        Luke Djem So - fail save


That's 220 damage inflicted by Luke and 200 damage inflicted by Vader, so obviously one of them would be dead before that ended.


Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:10:46 PM
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I knew there was I reason I love that Vader...

That and Throw 2 should whittle Luke down a little (or at least drain his FP).
xpraider
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:36:07 PM
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billiv15 wrote:
Warlord_Hett wrote:

Luke could do 50 back to Vader, 30 from the Djem So but then he'd get a twin attack for another 20


It's more important to look at odds here (I know he misspoke about the 40, but his point is valid).

Luke at Full vs Vader SotJ at Full.

Vader attacks with Opportunist (as that was the comparison made).

Vader hits first one, does 40dmg. Luke tries to defense, 50% chance he takes 40, and he can reroll.

Then 50% chance he hits the Djem so roll, and of course he can reroll.

Let's assume normal odds, that one of Luke's Fprrs still fails, and the other works. Therefore he is out of force usage early in the fight (just to make things simpler).

So let's assume he fails the defense, but makes the Djem so. He is at 110hps.

He then attacks once at +23, hits for 30. Now Vader gets a Djem so save at 50%. Let's assume he as well makes the save. He gets to hit back for another 40. Luke can Djem so this as well, let's assume he fails this time, and Vader then chooses to Reposte, that's another 40 to Luke (remember, JH + opp). Luke is already almost dead and has yet to do more than 30 to Vader.

Now Luke djem so's the Reposte, makes the save, but chooses not to attack (since he will die first in this situation). But he still has to make the original Djem so twin attack, so he takes it, hits and does 20 to Vader. Now vader fails his djem so, so the first attack is resolved with Luke at 30hps and Vader at 90.

And Vader still has his double.

Honestly, in this situation, Luke should never use Djem so against Vader, as oddly, odds are he dies first. It's just too much damage, and his hps cannot keep up. Having the ability to defense won't help him enough, even with MotF2. Especially since it's a 55pt piece hurting a 115.

The same to a lesser extent is true of any other Djem so character. Sure, in most of those cases, Luke will win the battle, but the much cheaper opponent will likely end up doing much more damage than Luke can handle costing him the war. Vader SotJ is one case where he probably won't even win the battle in most cases.


This is very true, though sometimes the way it runs can vary, depending on how the reroll with that 2nd force point goes. If he's lucky and gets the reroll on the first failed LS defense, he'd be at 70.

But that being the case, Luke's not completely out of options, but definitely has to be careful. Luke's best option to gain an advantage is to attack Vader as few times during a single turn as possible, and to use the force points he gains for LS defense, and to try and get Vader to attack before Luke activates (though this won't happen if the Vader player knows what he is doing). Luke should never do more than 1 Djem So to Vader in a round in which he has not activated, and should probably do no more than 1 regular set of attacks per round. If Vader attacks when Luke has activated, he'll hit Luke, Luke can try and LS Defense the attack, and will probably save against 1 attack if he uses both of his force points that turn. If he Djem Sos on Vader, he'll end up begin Riposted and Djem So'd right back. If he doesn't Djem So, he'll probably only take the 40 damage. When Luke attacks, he'll do 40 damage to Vader, who will Djem So and Riposte, and will probably take 40 damage with the LS defense. If Vader attacks Luke before Luke Activates, Luke will only take 30 damage per attack, and is better off in terms of Djem Soing (though not much). And whether Luke survives or not really depends on what the rest of the squads are doing. Cade and Leia are probably his best friends in this instance, but any skilled Imperial player will do what he can to make sure they're dead first.

To be honest though Vader Scourge is just a beast against any melee attacker. I've done 1 on 1 trials between him and other melee figures and he will kill any other melee attacker, or at least the ones with a Force Rating. Vader will probably die in the process against the more expensive figures, but it can be a worthwhile trade off. If both sides use all their available attacks, both figures will probably die.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:54:09 PM
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GMLS doesn't have access to Opportunist, but he can get to 30 with Deceptive from the CorSec.
swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:58:21 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
GMLS doesn't have access to Opportunist, but he can get to 30 with Deceptive from the CorSec.


Non-Unique Allies...
xpraider
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:30:13 PM
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Even if he could gain access to opportunist or deceptive, he'll rarely use it since he's likely to get out activated. Cunning or Advantageous attack would be better for him. It forces a tough decision for your opponents who have opportunist. Do you let Luke hit at 30 damage, so you can hit at 30 damage, or do you strike first so he can only do 20.
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