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Gencon 2017 Casual Event Options
harryg
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 5:36:39 PM
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kkj wrote:
harryg wrote:
To address the point of Override being the problem, isn't that why we have a 3 point Fringe piece with Satchel Charge? Not to mention the 15 point Fringe piece with Shatter Beam, which would be a solid counter even if we banned said 3 point piece?


But it makes your "competitiveness" dependent on the survial of your pieces with Satchel Charge - not a very good solution IMO. It's just the WOTC-kind of fix - create new stuff that you HAVE to play in order to stay competitive. I find that lock-out wins are annoying and cowardly in the first place and you shouldn't support this mechanic as a primary way of winning games. Why make the rules in such a way that players HAVE to use certain pieces to even be able to win games when you can just slightly change the basic rules so that you can play whatever you want without the danger of game-mechanical auto-losses?

Having your own Override also counters enemy Override, and there's an 8 point Fringe piece with Override. Override and Shatter Beam are sight, so it's not a big deal really.
juice man
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 5:48:13 PM
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Could change Override to only open doors, not keep them closed.
kkj
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:00:10 PM
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juice man wrote:
Could change Override to only open doors, not keep them closed.


+1 Great Idea, although i still prefer mine Flapper Beeing able to get a turn of "rest" to heal your characters or set up for fight while your opponent has to shoot/cut through the door seems intriguing to me.
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:03:35 PM
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kkj wrote:
juice man wrote:
Could change Override to only open doors, not keep them closed.


+1 Great Idea, although i still prefer mine Flapper Beeing able to get a turn of "rest" to heal your characters or set up for fight while your opponent has to shoot/cut through the door seems intriguing to me.


The way that a squad would abuse your system is with an activation advantage and double override - spin activations until you're all done while the door is closed, then open it and have a bunch of shots at you after you're all gone.
kkj
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:11:15 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
kkj wrote:
juice man wrote:
Could change Override to only open doors, not keep them closed.


+1 Great Idea, although i still prefer mine Flapper Beeing able to get a turn of "rest" to heal your characters or set up for fight while your opponent has to shoot/cut through the door seems intriguing to me.


The way that a squad would abuse your system is with an activation advantage and double override - spin activations until you're all done while the door is closed, then open it and have a bunch of shots at you after you're all gone.


But you will only be able to that once, if at all. Because the enemy team can just attack the door while you keep it closed. A 3 square-wide door would have 150 hp, im sure a normal squad can dish out that much damage in one round, if not more.
harryg
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:14:12 PM
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kkj wrote:
juice man wrote:
Could change Override to only open doors, not keep them closed.


+1 Great Idea, although i still prefer mine Flapper Beeing able to get a turn of "rest" to heal your characters or set up for fight while your opponent has to shoot/cut through the door seems intriguing to me.

This happens in the current game though, or something similar at least. Usually you don't even get a turn to "rest" because if you hide all or some of your pieces behind a door you're leaving the Ugnaught unchallenged to blow the door up, so really you're getting a phase or 2 if that.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2016 7:34:16 PM
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I like the idea of attacking doors so that Ugnaughts are not absolutely necessary, but at 50hp that makes uggies near useless.

I'd suggest 30hp but can only be attacked by an adjacent enemy who replaced turn to inflict 10 dmg. Then it takes a couple rounds possibly to get through. That way other door control still has value. 50 hp is just one activation in most cases so door control abilities are useless.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 6:48:17 AM
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Well... here I am after all this time still reading threads, still reading the same arguments, same responses....

Here's a list of what should be done to fix this game:

1. Get rid of all v-sets--- because of some other changes further down the list

2. change floor rules, mouse droids don't provide cover don't block movement, still cant end in their square though- no super stealth, no act control, no less then 3 point characters.

3. characters with lightsaber special ability are melee attacks when adjacent, same with double claw attack, etc.

4. restart v-sets with 30ish characters per set, not sure what is best for printing but somewhere in the 24-48 range should be maximum per set.

5. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD THE FOCUS OF THE GAME SHOULD BE WELL KNOWN CHARACTERS PEOPLE LOVE. Screw having crap-tastic characters such as daala dominating the game at tournaments and stuff, that crap is lame. when people come to the table to watch a star wars game they should immediately be able to recognize iconic characters, they should see luke fighting vader, obi wan, etc... not freaking naboo turds, or vong throwing bugs, that's lame as all get out.

6. Focus on 2-3 factions at a time, don't try to balance every faction at once, and don't try to give every faction something with every set. not every faction needs a new piece every time a set is released it is just going to compete with the other awesome stuff already there and that's what leads to huge power creep.

7. reward players for their service to the game with design spots, even if it is one piece or to help oversee a faction etc. Looking at you Matt Spry, you just keep on getting screwed don't you....

8. Stop making everything a pity party--- moving things to SWMgamers was a stupid move, put things back on bloomilk.

9. bring in the ban hammer, when something is proven to be too good, daala, ban her until it is fixed don't wait til the entire tournament season is dominated by one piece, after say 3-4 major tournaments wins where almost the entire top 4 is different versions of the same squad ban that crap until it can be fixed.

10. Move the major tournament out of Gencon. We can't compete as a game against actual games with company backing. I would make gencon a way to try and get new players, find out what it is the interested, but not committed player plays and focus on that. if it is mass battles do that, or dynamic duo, do that, get people interested in whatever type of the game you can and try to bring them into other styles of play after that, but get people's foot in the door and move on from there.


Deaths_Baine
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 6:50:33 AM
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Darth_Reignir wrote:
I agree with 7, 9, and 10. I think the other ones are just dreams that couldn't happen (and that's coming from ME.)



they could happen, and they should, the game can't be fresh anymore without the power creep going insane. vehicles were a mistake, mace windu ruins so many melee pieces its incredible, people designed power pieces on characters that should never have been power pieces, special abilities like con artist should never have existed...


just moving this over here for timb.
TimmerB123
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 8:02:13 AM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:

just moving this over here for timb.


ThumbsUp
leshippy
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 11:00:26 AM
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Something totally not game related, but GenCon related is when to have it and how long it should last and how many people can buy tickets. All three are something that you need to have for a GenCon event. There also has to be a description written up that should have an easy link for the rule set you all decide on. I am not sure how long that description can be, maybe 150 words tops. James would have a better idea.

I just don't want you to figure out everything else and not realize that this stuff has to be done as well. PLus you will need at least one judge or coordinator.

Oh yeah map list as well.

Bill...Tim...Jason am I forgetting anything?
TimmerB123
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 11:36:02 AM
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leshippy wrote:
Something totally not game related, but GenCon related is when to have it and how long it should last and how many people can buy tickets. All three are something that you need to have for a GenCon event. There also has to be a description written up that should have an easy link for the rule set you all decide on. I am not sure how long that description can be, maybe 150 words tops. James would have a better idea.

I just don't want you to figure out everything else and not realize that this stuff has to be done as well. PLus you will need at least one judge or coordinator.

Oh yeah map list as well.

Bill...Tim...Jason am I forgetting anything?


Not that I can think of at the moment. I will help with the administrative end if need be. First step is to get a ruleset nailed down.
TimmerB123
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 11:42:51 AM
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I will also help pin down a judge (coordinator). I fill that roll if all else fails, but from some of the previous comments, some would feel better if I was not present. I am fine with that - I want this to be an event for casual players, made by casual players and run by casual players.
gholli69
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 11:55:32 AM
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Just a quick thought on the override issue, what if instead of lasting until he start of the override characters next turn, the override effect only lasted until the end of the round, if everyone was fine wth door checks happenning before start of the new round instead of after the first activation of the round this would at least give you the opportunity to win init. And then be able to run in at the top of the next round. That gives the override player a chance to heal/ regenerate or whatever in safety but wold allow for at least a chance to win init and then engage for the opponent! Just an idea for consideration.
leshippy
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 12:09:10 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:


10. Move the major tournament out of Gencon. We can't compete as a game against actual games with company backing. I would make gencon a way to try and get new players, find out what it is the interested, but not committed player plays and focus on that. if it is mass battles do that, or dynamic duo, do that, get people interested in whatever type of the game you can and try to bring them into other styles of play after that, but get people's foot in the door and move on from there.




Minus the major tournament part aren't we already doing this?
Darth_Reignir
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 12:50:22 PM
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What I will try to do is come up with a few ideas for rules in my group and post them here. I don't think we really should do any major overhauls such as BAN THE WHOLE V-SET. I don't have a problem, personally, with all the V-Set, just a few pieces.
Some things off the top of my head that I'd like to see implemented, and it reiterates what a few have already said:
1) Banning Booming Voice
2) Limiting the number of pieces per squad
3) Banning Tempo control
I'm more than happy to debate these ideas and am not demanding them. I just think that's where I'd start.

One of my friends suggested we do something similar to what League of Legends does in ranked games (I am not a player of that game, but this did appeal to me.)

Players register for the event, but do not register a team. When registering, players will be able to pick One piece that would like to see banned for play. Once registration is done, a list of every banned piece will be provided to participants, and participants would be given an as-of-yet determined amount of time to create a team based on that list.
Caedus
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 1:33:54 PM
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Darth_Reignir wrote:
What I will try to do is come up with a few ideas for rules in my group and post them here. I don't think we really should do any major overhauls such as BAN THE WHOLE V-SET. I don't have a problem, personally, with all the V-Set, just a few pieces.
Some things off the top of my head that I'd like to see implemented, and it reiterates what a few have already said:
1) Banning Booming Voice
2) Limiting the number of pieces per squad
3) Banning Tempo control
I'm more than happy to debate these ideas and am not demanding them. I just think that's where I'd start.

One of my friends suggested we do something similar to what League of Legends does in ranked games (I am not a player of that game, but this did appeal to me.)

Players register for the event, but do not register a team. When registering, players will be able to pick One piece that would like to see banned for play. Once registration is done, a list of every banned piece will be provided to participants, and participants would be given an as-of-yet determined amount of time to create a team based on that list.


Other than Banning Booming Voice (for me anyway and I am genuinely curious as to why people would want to Ban Mas' ability?) Those are some really good ideas. I would not mind a Max Acts tied in with Banning Act/Tempo Control. I would assume that means simple tempo ie; less than 2 acts/phase, or more than 2 acts/phase, correct?

The only integrity concern I have is the abuse of the Ban a Piece idea. If others got together to discuss what they were banning. Then a few people could phase out a lot of competitive pieces because they simply don't like them or think they are broken.
kkj
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 1:36:39 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I like the idea of attacking doors so that Ugnaughts are not absolutely necessary, but at 50hp that makes uggies near useless.

I'd suggest 30hp but can only be attacked by an adjacent enemy who replaced turn to inflict 10 dmg. Then it takes a couple rounds possibly to get through. That way other door control still has value. 50 hp is just one activation in most cases so door control abilities are useless.


I tried it with 30 hp per square but they went down to fast IMO for override to be of any value at all. Most doors are only 2 squares wide and 60 damage that automatically hits is done very easily. You could try it with 40, but i think 30 is too less.
Caedus
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 1:42:40 PM
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I would like to see, not only here but in the competitive rules is...

Characters with Force Powers can OPEN a closed or locked door within 12 squares, by spending a Force Point. Whether or not this should "replace attacks" or include "only on this Character's turn" or "at the end of this Character's turn" is up for debate. I would characterize it like the unwritten FPRR or FP to move 2 extra squares rule

Darth_Reignir
Posted: Friday, August 19, 2016 1:48:12 PM
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Caedus wrote:
The only integrity concern I have is the abuse of the Ban a Piece idea. If others got together to discuss what they were banning. Then a few people could phase out a lot of competitive pieces because they simply don't like them or think they are broken.


But that's the idea... It's a casual event, not a competitive one...
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