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Speculation: Meta in a factionless world Options
joelker41
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:24:38 PM
Rank: Grand Master Yoda
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/13/2008
Posts: 508
billiv15 wrote:
joelker41 wrote:

I am not disagreeing with you lol just saying Luke will be a decently tough out if he is played by a competent player.


And I was agreeing with you :) However, the question at hand was whether or not GMLS would actually be tougher in this format, or less than his current status.

I contend, that there is no way Luke gets better in comparison to the other squads. I think his squads actually lose a few steps in this new "meta".


Honestly he may take a step back but his biggest problems are mobility and a good wingman in 200. R2 solves one of those somewhat, though not totally.

I could see say Rieekan, GMLS, R2, Ganner, Dodonna, Juno, and filler could work. Albeit short on activations. But then again with the UberBuck running around I doubt anyone would run Gha+kazillion activations anyways.

Lancer doesn't improve, that's nice. R2 however in droid squads is painful with GG DAC lol. 25 defense in cover and Twin vs opposing droids.

That would be fun to just WATCH lol.
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:28:49 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
I don't disagree overall, but I'm sure GMLS would find R2 Astromech's tow cable pretty useful, as well as Dodonna and Rieekan. EDIT - lots of people have already thought of that, sorry!

If every faction had access to Dodonna, I reckon you may as well ban him - it doesn't really make the game very interesting if every single squad is running a token 9 points. Although I guess there is some tactical decision making choosing between one and two activations each round.
Demosthenes
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:51:56 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 12/23/2009
Posts: 1,399
Location: MD
I've been toying with a GMLS all-faction 200 squad, and this is what I have so far:

115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
25 Leia Skywalker, Jedi Knight
14 General Rieekan
12 Anakin Skywalker, Force Spirit
9 General Dodonna
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda

(192pts. 7 activations)

Leia to give GMLS free rerolls, Rieekan giving him evade, Anakin ghosts him and gives people mettle, R2 tows, Mas makes Leia's commander effect rangeless. Not sure what else to do with the other 8 points, or if it needs to be retooled at all.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:06:07 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
For the other 8 points, swap Anakin for Yoda. Give GMLS more force points to work with and he still gets Mettle.
joelker41
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:18:18 PM
Rank: Grand Master Yoda
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/13/2008
Posts: 508
Demosthenes wrote:
I've been toying with a GMLS all-faction 200 squad, and this is what I have so far:

115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker
25 Leia Skywalker, Jedi Knight
14 General Rieekan
12 Anakin Skywalker, Force Spirit
9 General Dodonna
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda

(192pts. 7 activations)

Leia to give GMLS free rerolls, Rieekan giving him evade, Anakin ghosts him and gives people mettle, R2 tows, Mas makes Leia's commander effect rangeless. Not sure what else to do with the other 8 points, or if it needs to be retooled at all.


Problem is dodonna does almost nothing in the squad as constituted since you can spin maybe him, Mas, and maybe Ani before your opponent moves. Just throw in some Mice for blockers or Ugos.
Darth O
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 1:32:55 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/30/2009
Posts: 1,389
Location: New Zealand ( kind of by Australia)
What about Luke and The Jedi Exile? Nah, scrap that, not enough activations!
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 2:11:40 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
And how long would Luke's support last against anything else out there? Not long. Further, consider the following (not even what I would say is the best, but something new nonetheless).

Thrawn
Captain Rex
Exile
Dodonna
Mas
R2
Yoda on Kybuck

(didn't check points, but I think there's room for a couple of ugs or something).

EmporerDragon
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 2:27:14 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 2,115
Location: Watertown, SD
billiv15 wrote:


(didn't check points, but I think there's room for a couple of ugs or something).



3 Ugnaughts makes the squad 200 points even.
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 2:38:38 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
My goodness - Rex with Opportunist and Extra Attack could be putting out 180 damage a round at +16 - is my maths right?
joelker41
Posted: Thursday, September 30, 2010 2:55:24 PM
Rank: Grand Master Yoda
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/13/2008
Posts: 508
billiv15 wrote:
And how long would Luke's support last against anything else out there? Not long. Further, consider the following (not even what I would say is the best, but something new nonetheless).

Thrawn
Captain Rex
Exile
Dodonna
Mas
R2
Yoda on Kybuck

(didn't check points, but I think there's room for a couple of ugs or something).



I would rather go the Rex/Tarkin route, but I understand why Exile is in there.

Is there a good 27 point commander that you could sub in for Exile to go with Tarkin?

Maybe Grievous, KW, but that's a stretch.
Disturbed1
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 1:31:49 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/27/2009
Posts: 205
Location: Southern Illinois
joelker41 wrote:
Maybe Grievous, KW, but that's a stretch.


Swapping him to set up for a Triple Sniper shot with Opportunist doesnt sound too bad to me.
Demosthenes
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 2:43:28 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 12/23/2009
Posts: 1,399
Location: MD
I'm certainly not making the argument for GMLS being Tier 1, as he is entirely too expensive for what he does and once his Force Points are done, he's not much more than a dude who can get shot to pieces pretty quickly. He doesn't have enough HP for his cost, but it's still fun to roll him out every once in a while. =)
Inquisitive Infiltrator
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 2:58:58 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/6/2010
Posts: 82
GMLS
Boba Ftt BH
Dodonna
R7
X2 Uggs.

6 Acts at 200 points.
Like I said in another thread, this squad is hard to beat, Dodonna does more then nothing, he gives the squad a fighting chance. If you run GMLS out there too soon, he wont have enough FPs to keep himself alive.

What I said in my last post was to "Play Test", and if you think that a spirit is too much of an advantage, try this on Vassal:

Exar Kun & Darth Bane
VS.
GMLS

GMLS will also win every single time, with about 30-40 HP remaining.
As far as the game being played strictly by squad format, I think at this stage in the game, anything goes.
Im not sure what goes on in the world of DCI anymore, but the game is the game no matter how you play it.

ThumbsUp Viva La GMLS!!ThumbsUp
EmporerDragon
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 3:52:47 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 2,115
Location: Watertown, SD
Inquisitive Infiltrator wrote:
GMLS
Boba Ftt BH
Dodonna
R7
X2 Uggs.

6 Acts at 200 points.
Like I said in another thread, this squad is hard to beat,

No. No it is not. It just deals too little damage to be competitive.

Quote:
If you run GMLS out there too soon, he wont have enough FPs to keep himself alive.


And what opponent in their right mind is going to let you sit and hide 'til you're ready?
Quote:

Exar Kun & Darth Bane
VS.
GMLS

GMLS will also win every single time, with about 30-40 HP remaining.

Only if he makes every single Sith Sorcery save or the Exar/Bane player is stupid enough to leave their characters adjacent to Luke.

billiv15
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 4:57:37 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
Inquisitive Infiltrator wrote:
GMLS
Boba Ftt BH
Dodonna
R7
X2 Uggs.

6 Acts at 200 points.
Like I said in another thread, this squad is hard to beat,
No it's not hard to beat. Just because you say it, does not make it so. This wouldn't beat about 90% of the tier 2 squads out there in 200 points right now, let alone a theoretical "no faction" meta. 6 activations is a joke.

Inquisitive Infiltrator wrote:
Dodonna does more then nothing, he gives the squad a fighting chance.
No, you are wrong, he does nothing. You must play against the same locals who run 2-3 expensive beats and never run more than 10 activations in any squad. In that case, I would agree, GMLS is a tough cookie. Against the top tier squads that are run in the rest of the world however, Dodonna is in fact a waste of points.

Inquisitive Infiltrator wrote:
If you run GMLS out there too soon, he wont have enough FPs to keep himself alive.
With 6 activations, you are going to be stuck with a full health GMLS, locked in a room by himself after round 2 against almost all top tier squads.

Inquisitive Infiltrator wrote:
What I said in my last post was to "Play Test", and if you think that a spirit is too much of an advantage, try this on Vassal:

Exar Kun & Darth Bane
VS.
GMLS
That's not a playtest either. None of us cares what GMLS can do against single or in this case double melee opponents (granted, I agree that your "results" are not accurate and you didn't test this as ED points out). But regardless, the game is played by squads, not one on one matchups, as you were told before.

Mod edit: Didn't seem to be adding to the thread.
Weeks
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 5:07:10 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 1,195
There are a lot of fun Possibilities with no faction restriction like

54 Kyle JBM
33 Captain Rex
27 Luke RC
20 General Whorm
16 General Crix Madine
14 General Rieekan
12 Mando CIO
9 Doombot
8 Mas Ameda
x2 uggies

Luke has insane damage potiential after he moves arounf kyle/rex to where they need to be. CIO cancels other act control. Double disrutive vs uberbuck and twin reposte/twin djem so. And everyone has evade.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 5:38:44 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
The top squads from GenCon used Lobot with mass Mice. What is it about the factionless meta that makes 20+ activations no longer necessary?
billiv15
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 6:41:20 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
FlyingArrow wrote:
The top squads from GenCon used Lobot with mass Mice. What is it about the factionless meta that makes 20+ activations no longer necessary?


That isn't totally correct. There were 4 squads in the top 8 that did not.

But in general, your point stands :)
joelker41
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 7:34:50 AM
Rank: Grand Master Yoda
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/13/2008
Posts: 508
This makes me want to make a YoBuck/Arica/Thrawn squad.

Play some swarm squads vs that lol.LOL
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, October 1, 2010 7:40:10 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
Weeks wrote:
There are a lot of fun Possibilities with no faction restriction like

54 Kyle JBM
33 Captain Rex
27 Luke RC
20 General Whorm
16 General Crix Madine
14 General Rieekan
12 Mando CIO
9 Doombot
8 Mas Ameda
x2 uggies

Luke has insane damage potiential after he moves arounf kyle/rex to where they need to be. CIO cancels other act control. Double disrutive vs uberbuck and twin reposte/twin djem so. And everyone has evade.


Oh god. Needs Thrawn instead of Rex. Now Luke will be doing at least 60 on the move no matter what. Maybe even switch in Gen. Skywalker?

Factionless is a fun format, but seriously, you can't even think about it as a competitive format. The game will be broken, and be unfun.
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