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Mouse Droids to expensive Options
creme_brule
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 1:19:29 PM
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I think a good idea might be to make more characters with Relay Orders and/or Satchel Charge, kinda like what the creators did with the Spaarti Clones -- it didn't replace the ugis at all but it made a great alternative to them as well. Maybe something like "Old (Very Old :D) Republic Messenger" that gives relay orders or something like that.
bkchi
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 3:06:22 PM
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Looks like Miniature Market is the best deal right now at $7. Alter Reality Games want $13.40. They have 20 in stock, and I don't see them selling any time soon at that price.

Most stores don't allow you to proxy pieces because they want you to buy product. Once the SWM product has sold out for the most part I don't see why you couldn't proxy another piece for a mouse. Can a FLGS fault you for not buying SWM if they have none on the shelf? My play group has always allowed two things: pennies for Ugs and dimes for mice.

Quick question, I see what Gha does for mice, 33% discount, but what does Lobot do for mice?
Sashlon
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 3:18:55 PM
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bkchi wrote:
Quick question, I see what Gha does for mice, 33% discount, but what does Lobot do for mice?


Lobot + Gha = 10 reinforcement Mouse Droids. 10 extra activations for your squad that are not worth anything to your opponent and can be used as mobile screens for your main figs. That is pure evil in many builds.
buttcabbge
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 3:22:11 PM
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bkchi wrote:

Quick question, I see what Gha does for mice, 33% discount, but what does Lobot do for mice?


Combined w/ Gha, he allows you to see your opponents squad and decide whether to bring in 10 mouse droids at 2 points apiece (which don't count toward scoring since they are reinforcements). Or, if your opponent is playing something where the activations matter less or you are worried about your mice getting strafed on the first or second turn, you can do something else with your 20 points, or you can do some combo of mice and other fringe stuff.
buttcabbge
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 3:23:04 PM
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Apparently I should have posted that 3 1/2 minutes sooner.
tonythetoyman
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:17:40 PM
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countrydude82487 wrote:
tonythetoyman wrote:
Since WOTC is no longer in involved, it would be great if they at least got rid of the rule saying you had to have a card for each one (this was unique rule to the mouse droid for some reason... normally one card would suffice). Then, people could make two from one for at least some of theirs. The main reason given for this was that WOTC was in this to make money, now that they are out of it and we are into the vSets, I think this rule could easily go.


the specific rule you are reffering to is that you have to have the official card for each CUSTOM figure you have, you only have to have 1 card for each non custom of that figure. It wasnt made just for mouse droids, it was isn place beforethey came to be.

I do not believe this to be correct. The way the rule was written was always very unclear and open to interpretation. So, specific verbiage was added to the DCI SWM Floor Rules after (and specifically because) people started (or wanted to start) customizing the mouse droid. There is a lot of discussion about this in this thread:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/20135569/The_Super_Mouse_Droid_--__Possible_Stats_and_SAs_once_GAW_is_Released?pg=4

WOTC is out of the picture now and the community is in a position to do whatever it wants. I have 9 mouse droids and that is enough for me for all practical purposes (I have never used more than 4, and that gives me plenty to lend to other local players who don't have them). So, it doesn't really affect me. In spite of that, I still like the idea of allowing it quite a bit as I think we should do anything we can to keep the game accessible to as many people as possible.
jedispyder
Posted: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:49:09 PM
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Nope, it's always been 1 card for for multiple of the same model. It's been in the floor rules for years. This link is to the 2009 Floor Rules (the 2011 Floor Rules has an updated clause for conversion). But it's always been 1 card for multiple of the same figure...
http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/SWM_FLR_1Jul09_EN.pdf
Quote:
604. Authorized Models, Stat Cards and Terrain Maps
Players must have the official corresponding stat cards for all registered miniatures. Players using multiples of the same model need only one copy of the official stat card for those models but still must provide a clear method for all players to readily know the status of each individual model. Players must make their stat cards available to opponents or tournament officials upon request.


The problem with your example is that you were exiting the main portion of the 604 rule and enter the customizing section. If you have 5 Mouse Droids, cut them in half to create 10 Mouse Droids, you still only have 5 cards. You have to be able to have ALL the cards. It's not just for Mouse Droids, it's for everything.

Quote:
When a conversion is being used it must have the corresponding official card for each conversion model. For example, if a player is using three customized Mouse Droid models and one official Mouse Droid model in their squad they will need to have four official Mouse Droid cards.


Mouse Droids are used as an example, not as the sole rule. But they did have to add that to the rules specifically because of the Mouse Droid problem. It stands for everything.
armoredgear7
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 1:10:19 AM
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Joined: 8/22/2008
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Sithborg wrote:
I feel an alternative to Mouse Droids and/or Uggie Demolitionists are a good idea. Just not the same, since you should allow those who spent the time to collect all of them to be okay.


I've always thought that figures like the Clone Trooper Sergeant and Battle Droid Lt. should have had relay orders. There's no reason we can't have some v-set trooper commander types with relay orders.

Instead of giving those figures a CE, just give them an SA called "Commander", so they don't count as followers and let them have relay orders. They'd be high-priority targets like mice, but you would consider bringing them because they might not die in one hit, or they might be decent shooters like the Clone Trooper Sergeant.
Jester007
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 2:03:19 AM
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Troll and Toad has 11 mousers for $8 each. The cards don't come in the hard plastic protectors, but I've never had a problem with them.

Sincerely,
Jester007
tonythetoyman
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 2:24:58 AM
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@Jedispyder... I respectfully submit that what you presented supports my point (especially the bold part).... You can have 10 of a figure but only one official stat card.

The other part about conversions was added specifically in response to the Mouse Droid issue, it was not in the floor rules before that time (I have all but one of the earliest versions, and I checked to be safe).

Regardless, it doesn't really matter any more. WOTC is out of the picture and the primary reason for the ruling is no longer relevant.

The main argument now seems to be that people with Mouse Droids will have their value diminished. But, this happens all the time in collectible games (game creators release reprints of sets of figures, or change the rules in a way that makes a previous valuable figure less valuable). Plus, nothing will diminish the value faster than no one wanting to play the game, which will happen sooner or later if we don't make it as accessible as possible and as fun as possible by making it so people can play the squads they want.

As a side point, I don't think this will affect the value of the Mouse Droid very much anyway. And, non-modified and original versions will always be worth more (in fact, the more that are cut up, the more the original will likely be worth). While many people will divide SOME of their Mouse Droids, few people will divide ALL of their mouse droids (especially if they have several). So, we won't really be doubling the number of Mouse Droids (maybe we'd be increasing it by 10-20%, which would still keep them pretty hard to come by).

billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 3:33:01 AM
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R5Don4 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
It's the price of doing business. Either we make the few of you who don't have enough mice happy, or piss off every player (many more than those without mice complaining) who already bought their own. Not to mention, I'm about 99% sure Sithborg is correct, changing the rule now would not change the price of mice in the secondary market. CMG markets despite the constant confusion about this, are never large enough to be affected by "market principles" that most of us learned in Economics 101. Our secondary market is so small that changing the rule just for one figure, isn't going to change the prices of that figure anyway. People still want more mice, and there aren't more out there to be had, other than in IE boosters. It doesn't matter if you reduce the demand, because the supply is still much lower than even 1/2 the demand. Further more, if the price did drop, you simply piss off others. I suggest either following the custom rules already in place, or getting over the fact that there are some pieces in any collectible game that will cost more than others. That is a fact that never changes, no matter what you do.

In short, the bad consequences always will outweigh the good on this one.


You can never have enough Mouse Droids. We are not trying to make the secondary market price come down, but this unit is very valuble for game play in every faction. I really don't think anyone would complain if we made Mouse Droids more accessible, by allowing people to have the option to turn one mini into two. The rule every custom mini needs to be an SWM restricts players from using alternate lines for customs (clix, d&d, Monpoc, WEG, Knight Models, etc.)

Also here is a crazy thought, what about including Mouse Droids as a reprint in a V-set so players can use whatever small based mini they have available?


Come on Don, think it through. Do you really think people wouldn't complain? Do you really? Really? Come on now, remember the old, fold a $20, throw it into a booster, and people will complain how it's folded. No, doing something like this would be a bad idea. It's not like mouse droids are $100 a piece. Anyone who wants a couple who can afford to even play this game, can most certainly go out and get them. We are not going to make a reprint, or allow fake mice to appease a few people who don't want to buy them on the secondary market. Consider that a final statement, this isn't really up for debate in my book. WotC part of the game is sacred, we leave their rules alone. We will make other minis with relay orders, but we aren't going to do anything to make it so cheap people can play with more mice without buying them.

As to whether or not the floor rules covered the mouse issue, they most certainly did. It was just not written clearly in one section so a selective reading of the rules could make it seem legal to cut them up and make two mice. The wording was added to make sure the rules were clear, but nothing actually changed in what was allowed and what wasn't.

As to whether or not changing that rule would keep the game going? That's a weak argument. Neither has anything to do with the other. All we do by changing that rule is make people who forked over the money unhappy, and those who were too cheap, happy. I'm not doing anything for that reason.
donnyrides
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 7:39:11 AM
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All this could be solved with a simple house rule saying that Mas is Fringe. Make Mas cost more if you want. The entire idea of the mouse and Mas kinda of weakens the game anyway IMO.

part of the challenge is keeping those leaders alive while staying within 6. Keeps it a squad tactics game instead of giving super boosts to already powerful loner-ish pieces. Just IMO of course.

If somebody said "here, you can have these 4 mouse droids" I would take them in a second though. you have to fight fire with fire sometimes and they would be very nice in my droid army for combining fire while passing on all the CE's
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 10:37:07 AM
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donnyrides wrote:
All this could be solved with a simple house rule saying that Mas is Fringe. Make Mas cost more if you want. The entire idea of the mouse and Mas kinda of weakens the game anyway IMO.

part of the challenge is keeping those leaders alive while staying within 6. Keeps it a squad tactics game instead of giving super boosts to already powerful loner-ish pieces. Just IMO of course.

If somebody said "here, you can have these 4 mouse droids" I would take them in a second though. you have to fight fire with fire sometimes and they would be very nice in my droid army for combining fire while passing on all the CE's


No. No, no, no, no. Seperatists and Rebels should never have access to Booming Voice. Gha + Mice still costs a lot more than Mas, which balances it out. Whorm, Princess Leia, Bothan Nobles, OOM-9, Battle Droid Lt should never, ever be used with Booming Voice.

A 4 pt fig with Relay Orders, or even a 3 pt non-Droid is the solution, NOT putting out more Booming Voice. The only faction that could have used it was the Vong, which they did get a modified version of. Sith and OR are very, very borderline.
qvos
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 10:53:19 AM
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Ya I agree, The Seps and the rebels having Booming Voice would be devastating to the game. I personally don't think Mas Broke the game at all. He may be a bit undercosted, and perhaps at the time he came out, I felt he gave the Imps and the Rep. a distinct advantage, but now seeing how the game has developed, Especially with the v-sets, I think A lot has been evened out. After all, even before the v-sets came out, how many Imperial and Republic teams could Dominate in the Meta, not just compete... Dominate the meta...Certainly Gowk, Yobuck , and Thrawn Squads with Mas.. they could compete, but I don't think they Dominated. If you want to say Gowk squad was dominant then the argument could be made that it was GOWK that was broken and not Mas.

As far as price goes. the mds might be a little on the expensive side, as far as dollars are concerned. But as long as the mds are high in price, that means there is still a demand for them. that's a good thing as far as the game is concerned.That means people are playing and I'm down with that. I'm kinda used to it. Remember back in the day when CS Darth Maul was going for $85.00 on Ebay... Thats expensive.

Btw, I just want to say thats it's great having sites like this one and SWM GAmers to have discussions like this. Happy Star Wars DAy to you guysBlooMilk
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 11:03:21 AM
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How would a diplomat with relay orders work out? Just thinking about it, since they're a bit more survivable that an average low point piece.

I agree with Mas Amedda for Republic and Imperials only - board wide swap is their thing, and they're weaker in other areas (eg no evade, no disruptive) to compensate.
CerousMutor
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 5:49:36 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
How would a diplomat with relay orders work out? Just thinking about it, since they're a bit more survivable that an average low point piece.

I agree with Mas Amedda for Republic and Imperials only - board wide swap is their thing, and they're weaker in other areas (eg no evade, no disruptive) to compensate.


+1
Mas is great and Booming is justified on him. Relay orders on the mouse or

Communication Tech
Fringe
7

HP 10
DF 13
AT + 4
DM 10

Evade
Relay orders


Heres a thought on mouse.
Since the line between official miniature and custom is becoming blurred, if its cost effective to do why doesn’t someone who is proficient in model moulding/casting bash out a load of mouse droid moulds?

I know I’d rather pay $8 for 3 mouse droid moulded miniatures then $8 for 1 ‘official’ mouse droid.
wannabe mexican
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 8:51:02 PM
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CerousMutor wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
How would a diplomat with relay orders work out? Just thinking about it, since they're a bit more survivable that an average low point piece.

I agree with Mas Amedda for Republic and Imperials only - board wide swap is their thing, and they're weaker in other areas (eg no evade, no disruptive) to compensate.


+1
Mas is great and Booming is justified on him. Relay orders on the mouse or

Communication Tech
Fringe
7

HP 10
DF 13
AT + 4
DM 10

Evade
Relay orders


Heres a thought on mouse.
Since the line between official miniature and custom is becoming blurred, if its cost effective to do why doesn’t someone who is proficient in model moulding/casting bash out a load of mouse droid moulds?

I know I’d rather pay $8 for 3 mouse droid moulded miniatures then $8 for 1 ‘official’ mouse droid.


I like that Technician guy. That is quite a cool idea.

Someone could quite reasonably cast a bunch of mice. It is probably one of the easier minis to make a cast of. The problems arise when you show up to a tournament with 10 mice but only 1 stat card. Aparantly the rules are that for any custom figure you have to have 1 card per figure. And those would most likely count as custom.
qvos
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 9:54:51 PM
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wannabe mexican wrote:
CerousMutor wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
How would a diplomat with relay orders work out? Just thinking about it, since they're a bit more survivable that an average low point piece.

I agree with Mas Amedda for Republic and Imperials only - board wide swap is their thing, and they're weaker in other areas (eg no evade, no disruptive) to compensate.


+1
Mas is great and Booming is justified on him. Relay orders on the mouse or

Communication Tech
Fringe
7

HP 10
DF 13
AT + 4
DM 10

Evade
Relay orders


Heres a thought on mouse.
Since the line between official miniature and custom is becoming blurred, if its cost effective to do why doesn’t someone who is proficient in model moulding/casting bash out a load of mouse droid moulds?

I know I’d rather pay $8 for 3 mouse droid moulded miniatures then $8 for 1 ‘official’ mouse droid.


I like that Technician guy. That is quite a cool idea.

Someone could quite reasonably cast a bunch of mice. It is probably one of the easier minis to make a cast of. The problems arise when you show up to a tournament with 10 mice but only 1 stat card. Aparantly the rules are that for any custom figure you have to have 1 card per figure. And those would most likely count as custom.

I could be wrong but making any money on figures would be against Licensing issues. The vsets were done with no profit..And even the Guys at GAmers knew the line they walked making the sets. Thats why they were so concerned having the characters put up on Bloomilk. It might be possible, as long as the fine people over at LucasFilm didn't catch wind or deem it a threat. Then again I might be totally off base and it might be a good ideaBigGrin
NickName
Posted: Thursday, May 5, 2011 3:17:09 AM
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Joined: 6/5/2009
Posts: 190
wannabe mexican wrote:

Someone could quite reasonably cast a bunch of mice. It is probably one of the easier minis to make a cast of. The problems arise when you show up to a tournament with 10 mice but only 1 stat card. Aparantly the rules are that for any custom figure you have to have 1 card per figure. And those would most likely count as custom.


My brother made a mouse cast and churned out a bunch of them. They're almost perfect. I use them all the time in place of my real mice just so it's easy to tell mine from my opponent's. (I have enough real ones and cards that if anyone ever complained I could swap but I doubt it will ever be necessary.)
billiv15
Posted: Thursday, May 5, 2011 10:37:48 AM
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Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
qvos wrote:
wannabe mexican wrote:
CerousMutor wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
How would a diplomat with relay orders work out? Just thinking about it, since they're a bit more survivable that an average low point piece.

I agree with Mas Amedda for Republic and Imperials only - board wide swap is their thing, and they're weaker in other areas (eg no evade, no disruptive) to compensate.


+1
Mas is great and Booming is justified on him. Relay orders on the mouse or

Communication Tech
Fringe
7

HP 10
DF 13
AT + 4
DM 10

Evade
Relay orders


Heres a thought on mouse.
Since the line between official miniature and custom is becoming blurred, if its cost effective to do why doesn’t someone who is proficient in model moulding/casting bash out a load of mouse droid moulds?

I know I’d rather pay $8 for 3 mouse droid moulded miniatures then $8 for 1 ‘official’ mouse droid.


I like that Technician guy. That is quite a cool idea.

Someone could quite reasonably cast a bunch of mice. It is probably one of the easier minis to make a cast of. The problems arise when you show up to a tournament with 10 mice but only 1 stat card. Aparantly the rules are that for any custom figure you have to have 1 card per figure. And those would most likely count as custom.

I could be wrong but making any money on figures would be against Licensing issues. The vsets were done with no profit..And even the Guys at GAmers knew the line they walked making the sets. Thats why they were so concerned having the characters put up on Bloomilk. It might be possible, as long as the fine people over at LucasFilm didn't catch wind or deem it a threat. Then again I might be totally off base and it might be a good ideaBigGrin


What he said. I wouldn't do it unless you were selling it for what it cost you.
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